Did you consider Roy Jones THE HW champion of the world?

guysta · Post by **guysta** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:16 pm

RASTA666 wrote:Nobody has said he was thee champion. Hell nobody is these days lol.

Well if you're a Wlad fan.....Wlad is!

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:18 pm

guysta wrote:
RASTA666 wrote:Nobody has said he was thee champion. Hell nobody is these days lol.

Well if you're a Wlad fan.....Wlad is!

did you not Read How i broke it down on the secound Page?

RASTA666 · Post by **RASTA666** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:22 pm

guysta wrote:
RASTA666 wrote:Nobody has said he was thee champion. Hell nobody is these days lol.

Well if you're a Wlad fan.....Wlad is!

His brother might have something to say about that lol. The thing is in most cases their are 4 or more people claiming to be champion now in Lewis's time regardless of how many belts he had, he was thought of by I would say most as THE champion but that takes nothing away from what Roy did. Furthermore expecting Roy to fight Lennox is beyond absurdity.

guysta · Post by **guysta** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:23 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
RASTA666 wrote:Nobody has said he was thee champion. Hell nobody is these days lol.

Well if you're a Wlad fan.....Wlad is!
did you not Read How i broke it down on the secound Page?

Marc, I'm just being boneheaded...much like people who fail to realize the significance of what Roy accomplished because they don't want to......

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:24 pm

guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
Well if you're a Wlad fan.....Wlad is!
did you not Read How i broke it down on the secound Page?
Marc, I'm just being boneheaded...much like people who fail to realize the significance of what Roy accomplished because they don't want to......

He accomplished somthing with the win but Not As much as Fitz did with his Win over Corbett....but thats just me

guysta · Post by **guysta** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:26 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote: did you not Read How i broke it down on the secound Page?
Marc, I'm just being boneheaded...much like people who fail to realize the significance of what Roy accomplished because they don't want to......
He accomplished somthing with the win but Not As much as Fitz did with his Win over Corbett....but thats just me

He accomplished something nobody has done in over 100 years.....but thats just the facts....and who wants to deal with those

RASTA666 · Post by **RASTA666** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:27 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote: did you not Read How i broke it down on the secound Page?
Marc, I'm just being boneheaded...much like people who fail to realize the significance of what Roy accomplished because they don't want to......
He accomplished somthing with the win but Not As much as Fitz did with his Win over Corbett....but thats just me

You cant compare the two anymore then you can with Fitz v Jeffries. Its almost two different sports. They are both remarkable achievements as was Fitz's loosing efforts against Jeffries.

KSTAT124 · Post by **KSTAT124** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:27 pm

guysta wrote:
KSTAT124 wrote:Jones was a heavyweight champion but he wasn't THE heavyweight champion. As great as he was, and he's a shoe-in to both Halls of Fame five years after he retires, he was never THE champion at any weight. He collected a shitload of titles, many legitimate, but he never added a lineal title to his collection.

On the day of 3/01/03, the WBC and IBO champ Lennox Lewis was the lineal heavyweight champion not John Ruiz, the man Jones dethroned that night. Jones won the WBA title, an officially recognized (by the IBHOF) belt but he was not, in any way, the "real" heavyweight champ.
Thanks for the update KSTAT...now can you fill us in on how many other MW have won an Officially recognized (by the IBHOF) HW belt?

None. It was a great accomplishment but it was Ruiz not Lewis, the lineal champion as recognized by the IBHOF and the IBRO, whom Jones dethroned. In terms of beating a lineal champion, Jones did what Mickey Walker, for one, did- defeat a major contender for the lineal title.

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:28 pm

guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote: Marc, I'm just being boneheaded...much like people who fail to realize the significance of what Roy accomplished because they don't want to......
He accomplished somthing with the win but Not As much as Fitz did with his Win over Corbett....but thats just me
He accomplished something nobody has done in over 100 years.....but thats just the facts....and who wants to deal with those

yeas but its not on the same Level of what Fitz did IMO....i Mean had there been 4 titles Way back when im Sure Guys like Greb or Walker would have Picked one up as well

RimmyJice · Post by **RimmyJice** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:30 pm

yeah sure, why not? why stop at just the four titles we have now? how about we include all the super, regular, ordinary, interim, recess, diamond belt champions as well? let's include the IBO, WBU, and all the other "world" titles to the mix as well! The more the merrier, let's not get bogged down with the actual definition of the word "champion", how are we supposed to prop up our favorite fighters if we do that?

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:32 pm

stenchasaurous wrote:
marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote: Marc, I'm just being boneheaded...much like people who fail to realize the significance of what Roy accomplished because they don't want to......
He accomplished somthing with the win but Not As much as Fitz did with his Win over Corbett....but thats just me
Historically, he didn't accomplish as much, and I don't think that's arguable, but I do think there is an argument for what Jones did being more impressive considering the size difference when you take into account that Corbett almost undoubtedly could have cut to the modern light-heavy limit himself without suffering any ill effects.

The same can Be said about Fitz as well though he could have Arguably Cut to Welter Givin Modorn Rules

guysta · Post by **guysta** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:36 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote: He accomplished somthing with the win but Not As much as Fitz did with his Win over Corbett....but thats just me
He accomplished something nobody has done in over 100 years.....but thats just the facts....and who wants to deal with those
yeas but its not on the same Level of what Fitz did IMO....i Mean had there been 4 titles Way back when im Sure Guys like Greb or Walker would have Picked one up as well

There we go with ifs and buts.....lets deal with what has actually happened.

OLDMONGOOSE · Post by **OLDMONGOOSE** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:36 pm

I love RJ but in no way, shape, or form was he the king

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:37 pm

guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote: He accomplished something nobody has done in over 100 years.....but thats just the facts....and who wants to deal with those
yeas but its not on the same Level of what Fitz did IMO....i Mean had there been 4 titles Way back when im Sure Guys like Greb or Walker would have Picked one up as well
There we go with ifs and buts.....lets deal with what has actually happened.

Ok then Roy won 1 of 4 meaningless titles and never fought the Champion at HW....FACT

RASTA666 · Post by **RASTA666** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:38 pm

Lol nobody said he was.

guysta · Post by **guysta** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:46 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote: yeas but its not on the same Level of what Fitz did IMO....i Mean had there been 4 titles Way back when im Sure Guys like Greb or Walker would have Picked one up as well
There we go with ifs and buts.....lets deal with what has actually happened.
Ok then Roy won 1 of 4 meaningless titles and never fought the Champion at HW....FACT

You're preaching to the choir Marc....Where have I said he fought "the" champ. He won a HW belt though and its unmatched in over 100 years....also fact.

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:50 pm

guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote: There we go with ifs and buts.....lets deal with what has actually happened.
Ok then Roy won 1 of 4 meaningless titles and never fought the Champion at HW....FACT
You're preaching to the choir Marc....Where have I said he fought "the" champ. He won a HW belt though and its unmatched in over 100 years....also fact.

in other Eras that would have been nothing more then a fight between contenders(also Fact) and thats why i veiw that win in a lesser way then some others becaus other fighters had gone from MW to become a Contender at HW...Hell Carpinteir(sp) went form like Fly to Challeng Dempsey...it dosnet Match What Fitz did

guysta · Post by **guysta** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:05 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote: Ok then Roy won 1 of 4 meaningless titles and never fought the Champion at HW....FACT
You're preaching to the choir Marc....Where have I said he fought "the" champ. He won a HW belt though and its unmatched in over 100 years....also fact.
in other Eras that would have been nothing more then a fight between contenders(also Fact) and thats why i veiw that win in a lesser way then some others becaus other fighters had gone from MW to become a Contender at HW...Hell Carpinteir(sp) went form like Fly to Challeng Dempsey...it dosnet Match What Fitz did

Marc, what Fitz did in beating the 180lb Corbett was better than Roy's accomplishment. Does that make you feel better? Now can you just acknowledge that Roy accomplished something that hasn't been done in over 100 years?

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:09 pm

guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote: You're preaching to the choir Marc....Where have I said he fought "the" champ. He won a HW belt though and its unmatched in over 100 years....also fact.
in other Eras that would have been nothing more then a fight between contenders(also Fact) and thats why i veiw that win in a lesser way then some others becaus other fighters had gone from MW to become a Contender at HW...Hell Carpinteir(sp) went form like Fly to Challeng Dempsey...it dosnet Match What Fitz did
Marc, what Fitz did in beating the 180lb Corbett was better than Roy's accomplishment. Does that make you feel better? Now can you just acknowledge that Roy accomplished something that hasn't been done in over 100 years?

Caus it had been done just not for an ABC title...Walker did it for one with wins over Johnny Risko and a Draw with Jack Sharkey to become a top 10 HW and walker was a Former Wetlerweight Champion who weighed in the 160's for these fights agaisnt guys who weighed Close to 200

guysta · Post by **guysta** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:22 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote: in other Eras that would have been nothing more then a fight between contenders(also Fact) and thats why i veiw that win in a lesser way then some others becaus other fighters had gone from MW to become a Contender at HW...Hell Carpinteir(sp) went form like Fly to Challeng Dempsey...it dosnet Match What Fitz did
Marc, what Fitz did in beating the 180lb Corbett was better than Roy's accomplishment. Does that make you feel better? Now can you just acknowledge that Roy accomplished something that hasn't been done in over 100 years?
Caus it had been done just not for an ABC title...Walker did it for one with wins over Johnny Risko and a Draw with Jack Sharkey to become a top 10 HW and walker was a Former Wetlerweight Champion who weighed in the 160's for these fights agaisnt guys who weighed Close to 200

LOL....you're a funny dude.

RASTA666 · Post by **RASTA666** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:25 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote: in other Eras that would have been nothing more then a fight between contenders(also Fact) and thats why i veiw that win in a lesser way then some others becaus other fighters had gone from MW to become a Contender at HW...Hell Carpinteir(sp) went form like Fly to Challeng Dempsey...it dosnet Match What Fitz did
Marc, what Fitz did in beating the 180lb Corbett was better than Roy's accomplishment. Does that make you feel better? Now can you just acknowledge that Roy accomplished something that hasn't been done in over 100 years?
Caus it had been done just not for an ABC title...Walker did it for one with wins over Johnny Risko and a Draw with Jack Sharkey to become a top 10 HW and walker was a Former Wetlerweight Champion who weighed in the 160's for these fights agaisnt guys who weighed Close to 200

This is just nuts. It has not been done ever until Roy did it after Bob. What part of that dont you get? So if their would have been more belts available in Bobs time I guess Bobs accomplishment would have meant squat

You seem to be ignoring the facts and in two threads so its best to just leave this alone. As far as the weight goes their were only 8 divisions. Greb ko'd heavyweights in his day and he gets credit for it. So Jones moved up and beat a belt holder 5 divisions north of where he started and was outweighed by about 35 pounds and gets credit dismissed. It's just to much. Nobody who gets a belt today in any division is a champion. Nobody is the champion unless they have all four belts because 4 actually equals 1. So in other words their are no champions today.

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:27 pm

guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote: Marc, what Fitz did in beating the 180lb Corbett was better than Roy's accomplishment. Does that make you feel better? Now can you just acknowledge that Roy accomplished something that hasn't been done in over 100 years?
Caus it had been done just not for an ABC title...Walker did it for one with wins over Johnny Risko and a Draw with Jack Sharkey to become a top 10 HW and walker was a Former Wetlerweight Champion who weighed in the 160's for these fights agaisnt guys who weighed Close to 200
LOL....you're a funny dude.

thats all Jones would have been in those days with his win over Ruix....a top 10 HW not a Title Holder...you saying it hadnt happend in 100 years is False.....the only reason Roy got that title is becaus there were 4 of them Floating around

guysta · Post by **guysta** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:38 pm

marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote: Caus it had been done just not for an ABC title...Walker did it for one with wins over Johnny Risko and a Draw with Jack Sharkey to become a top 10 HW and walker was a Former Wetlerweight Champion who weighed in the 160's for these fights agaisnt guys who weighed Close to 200
LOL....you're a funny dude.
thats all Jones would have been in those days with his win over Ruix....a top 10 HW not a Title Holder...you saying it hadnt happend in 100 years is False.....the only reason Roy got that title is becaus there were 4 of them Floating around

LOL...Those days Jones would have been "THE" champ after he beat the bloody piss out of Fitz. I think I'm done with this hypothetical bullshit. You can continue living in denial for whatever reason. We will have to agree to disagree.........

marciano1952 · Post by **marciano1952** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:47 pm

guysta wrote:
marciano1952 wrote:
guysta wrote: LOL....you're a funny dude.
thats all Jones would have been in those days with his win over Ruix....a top 10 HW not a Title Holder...you saying it hadnt happend in 100 years is False.....the only reason Roy got that title is becaus there were 4 of them Floating around
LOL...Those days Jones would have been "THE" champ after he beat the bloody piss out of Fitz. I think I'm done with this hypothetical bullshit. You can continue living in denial for whatever reason. We will have to agree to disagree.........

im not talking about that.....If the Ruiz-Jones fight had taken Place in those Days it would have been nothign more then a fight between 2 contenders

KnockoutTheFat · Post by **KnockoutTheFat** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:55 pm

God damn that's a lot a quoting

The 13th Round

Did you consider Roy Jones THE HW champion of the world?

Well?