w/ SSM out...we get Joshua Clottey VS Zab Judah

Vastud75 · Post by **Vastud75** » Fri May 16, 2008 3:53 pm

IMO Zab is first in the 2nd tier of welters. Besides the Baldomir debacle which was a stpid fight but I still thought he won, he has lost to Tszyu, Floyd and Cotto. Are we that big on Clottey or that down o Zab?

LORD · Post by **LORD** » Fri May 16, 2008 3:53 pm

Vastud75 wrote:IMO Zab is first in the 2nd tier of welters. Besides the Baldomir debacle which was a stpid fight but I still thought he won, he has lost to Tszyu, Floyd and Cotto. Are we that big on Clottey or that down o Zab?

(Pssssst....they're that down on Zab)

KSTAT124 · Post by **KSTAT124** » Fri May 16, 2008 3:55 pm

Mayz wrote:
mekane wrote:
hughes205 wrote:i thught cloottey already had a fight lined up. for some reason i thought he was going to fight berto
i think that was the plan until judah fight was canceled, judah must be ranked higher than berto so he gets the shot now that he isn't already lined up for a fight...
Nah isn't Berto like number 1 contender at WBC and top 5 in the rest? Its all about the $s. Judah is still a big name unfortunately.

As I posted earlier, it was Berto, not Clottey, who has a fight lined up. Judah may end up above Berto when the IBF's May ratings come out or Berto may end up temporarily dropped from the top 15 because of him not being available due to his upcoming WBC eliminator with Rodriguez. Even if they stay as they were in April (Clottey #1, Berto #2, Judah #3), Clottey and Judah would be the highest ranked available contenders at the time the IBF designates who is to fight for the soon-to-be vacant title.

It isn't necessarily about big names or even big money. The last time the IBF's welterweight title was vacant, it was Mark "Poison" Suarez and Kermit Cintron who fought to fill the vacancy.

KSTAT124 · Post by **KSTAT124** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:12 pm

RASTA666 wrote:No offense your LORDship but this is a bit bogus that Zab once again gets vaulted to another title shot. People were crying about David Haye getting in the top 10 and here you have Zab getting a shot every other month. I'm not shitting on him but sheesh. You also have people making a federal case over Arthur getting a "gift" and this kind of stuff continues to happen. Same with Paq jumping right into a Diaz title fight. Their seems to be a rule for some and a different rule for others.

It's true that there are too many complaints in regards to Arthur. I explained previously on two other threads, for the WBO NOT to upgrade Arthur to full champion status after Guzman vacated the title would have been grossly unfair.

Pacquiao is fighting Diaz, who'll be making an optional defense. Pacquiao is not rated at 135 but is the reigning champion just 5 pounds below.

The WBO's latest ratings came out today (I'll be posting them in a little while) and Guzman is now their #1 contender at 135.

Haye's situation is a little different because of the wide differences in his weight and that of the reigning heavyweight champions, especially Peter and Klitschko. Strangely enough, it's much easier to justify Haye getting a shot at a heavyweight title as the reigning cruiserweight champion than it is to justify ranking him in the top ten based on his win over Tomasz Bonin. However, it would not be hard at all to slip him into the WBC's top ten ahead of Donnell Holmes! (Donnell Holmes- what the fuck is he doing in the top ten anyway?)

RASTA666 · Post by **RASTA666** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:22 pm

LORD wrote:
RASTA666 wrote:No offense your LORDship but this is a bit bogus that Zab once again gets vaulted to another title shot. People were crying about David Haye getting in the top 10 and here you have Zab getting a shot every other month. I'm not shitting on him but sheesh. You also have people making a federal case over Arthur getting a "gift" and this kind of stuff continues to happen. Same with Paq jumping right into a Diaz title fight. Their seems to be a rule for some and a different rule for others.

Lol, I'm gonna have to be biased and admittedly unfair in this one RASTA! You know Zab's one of my favorites so anything good going for him, I'm all for it. I think in all honesty though, a lot of people in the Boxing community probably share the same opinion of Zab that most folks on the board do: Judah's done, finished, he'll fade, he's chinny etc. And Clottey is a solid guy so his handlers are probably thinking they'll beat a big name in Judah to set up more lucrative fights. The problem is that if Judah gets the "W" Joshua's gonna back to be being high-risk/low reward.

Well at least your honest and up front about it

Theirs that damn high risk/ low reward phrase again

theVAMP · Post by **theVAMP** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:28 pm

What ppl seem to think is Zab is always coming off a loss... which isnt true...

You forget that what former champions in every weight class do is after they lose.. they take on lower/lesser fighters and still get their chances to move up in the rankings...

Zab has had two wins since his lost to Cotto, i knw they werent high profile wins... but in the ranking system... they count.

So he's not really just sitting on his name like say, Winky or Shane does... they should be like Zab and be more active.... that way even if it does look "funny" that they are getting a title shot... it can be justified...

Bertel1 · Post by **Bertel1** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:53 pm

Lord and Vamp. I have something to throw out there on Zab v/s Clottey. The guy was said to weigh like 170 before he fought Corrales. That's rather large considering he fights at welter. If Clottey could take Margarito's best shots do we assume that he wont be able to deal w/ Zab's power? I know Zab can punch but he's giving up a size adv in most cases against these larger opponents. Clottey has a solid beard, and he's never been stopped.(something else to consider)

The longer this bout goes, I figure the less likely Zab's chances of winning a decision become. Its no secret Zab can be inconsistent. Do you guys think Clotteys earmuff defense, and counter punching fighting style wont be a problem for Judah? If not then why so?

LORD · Post by **LORD** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:51 pm

Bertel1 wrote:Lord and Vamp. I have something to throw out there on Zab v/s Clottey. The guy was said to weigh like 170 before he fought Corrales. That's rather large considering he fights at welter. If Clottey could take Margarito's best shots do we assume that he wont be able to deal w/ Zab's power? I know Zab can punch but he's giving up a size adv in most cases against these larger opponents. Clottey has a solid beard, and he's never been stopped.(something else to consider)

The longer this bout goes, I figure the less likely Zab's chances of winning a decision become. Its no secret Zab can be inconsistent. Do you guys think Clotteys earmuff defense, and counter punching fighting style wont be a problem for Judah? If not then why so?

Oh I do think Clottey will be a tough fight, most definitely. This is what I wanted to initially give Zab credit for and reiterate to those that enjoy belittling the guy: Zab fights any and all that will get in there with him. You have guys like Magarito who've made a name fighting: Santos (and losing), Cintron 2x and Clottey (who some feel he lost.) Meanwhile Judah has faced guys like: Tszyu, Cotto, Spinx, Mayweather, Corely & Witter. Nobody is really looking to fight Clottey right now and when Zab couldn't get a rescheduling with none other than Shane Mosely, he takes on Clottey. Now honestly, who else does it like that these days?

Anyway, to the nuts and bolts of the fight itself. I know Joshua has a beard and I don't think it's probable that Judah can stop him...anything's possible though but I think this will go 12. The difference in Margarito's shots and Zab's are due to speed. It's harder to defend against the speedy, tighter punches from Zab so Clottey may get hit with something he doesn't see and like the old addage goes, "The punches you don't see are the ones that hurt you." I see Zab trying to test Joshua's chin early on. If Clottey starts with heavy pressure from the very beginning, I think Zab'll have to chin check to get respect a.s.a.p. If there's more of a "feel out" kind of 1st round I see Zab getting a little impatient and looking to land hard by the latter end of the 1st through the 3rd to see if he can make a dent. If there's no dent I think speed will allow Judah to still win enough rounds early to make the lead insurmountable. Judah by a couple rounds.

loseronriver · Post by **loseronriver** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:25 pm

theVAMP wrote:Clottey is overrated...

Judah has better skill...

more speed

more power

more experience....

im taking Judah...

and that "busted hand" being the reason he lost is bullshyt... Champions find ways to win no matter what

Which championship fight did Zab do that in ? Spinks one time? Zab is the new Butterbean, KING OF THE FOUR ROUNDER!!