Who Won Pavlik vs Taylor II ?

[the13r]

Just want to get the pulse of what the general concensus is on teh fight.Wh

[Banks187]

Taylor very close, no problem with 116-112 either way. I had it 115-113 JT.

[straycat]

Draw
Hats off to JT. My oppinion changed quite a bit favorably.
The non tittle 164 thing may of left the door open to quitely keep Kellys rising popularity intact.
Look for Pavlik unification serries to be Arums latest money making venture.

[RASTA666]

Pav won the fight. 115/113 sits well. 117/111 is out to lunch.

[Erison]

i voted wrong, I said Taylor by clear decision, but I meant Pavlik by clear decision.

[Andyl]

I hadnt watched the fight till this morning but I had Pavlik winning a close ud. Although Taylor had improved since the last fight he still takes such long periods of almost every round off. IMO its hard to give rounds to a person that fights like that when his opponent is more active throughout nearly the whole round, the whole fight. Just depends what you like to see I guess, weither its short flashy flurries or consistant steady work.

[Lagaidh]

I scored it a draw live (voted draw) but I have no problem with 116-112 for Pavlik, or 115-113 for Taylor.

[Juggalotus]

I had Pavlik winning pretty clearly on points. And I think JT needs to retire. There's nowhere for him to go. He can't go back down to middleweight really, he's done there, and he can't hang with Pavlik. If he moves up to Super Middleweight he gets annihilated by anyone.

[KSTAT124]

Draw
Hats off to JT. My oppinion changed quite a bit favorably.
The non tittle 164 thing may of left the door open to quitely keep Kellys rising popularity intact.
Look for Pavlik unification serries to be Arums latest money making venture.

The non-title bout was something Taylor's people insisted on prior to Taylor defending against Pavlik. They could not legally insist on a rematch with the middleweight title on the line because Pavlik was the mandatory contender. Rematch clauses (involving the title) are prohibited when a champion is defending against a mandatory challenger.

Pavlik agreed to the non-title rematch because his management was afraid Taylor's people would have him vacate and move to 168 unless the catchweight rematch clause was accepted. Pavlik would have still been able to fight for either the WBC or WBO title (not both because the two organizations had different #2 contenders: WBC- Giovanni Lorenzo, WBO- Gary Lockett) but would have been fighting for a vacant alphabet soup title rather than the lineal version that went along with Taylor's WBC and WBO belts.

[scappoosejohn]

I scored the fight 117 to 111 for Pavlik. But like Lurkster said, on a different thread, the disparity in points doesn't carry over to Taylor not giving a good fight. Some rounds were close and how they ended up being scored can vary depending on each person's interpretation. Taylor did well, but lost on points in quite a few rounds, although still deserves credit for his performance is my take on it.

[scappoosejohn]

I had Pavlik winning pretty clearly on points. And I think JT needs to retire. There's nowhere for him to go. He can't go back down to middleweight really, he's done there, and he can't hang with Pavlik. If he moves up to Super Middleweight he gets annihilated by anyone.

Taylor retiring seems a little overboard to me. To say that he gets annihilated by anyone at super middleweight is simply outrageous. He's still young and can rise up from the adversities he has faced. And if he can, then that makes him even better than what he was before. In other words I wouldn't count him out yet but, instead, wait and see how he handles his situation.

[Tommy]

I scored the fight 117 to 111 for Pavlik. But like Lurkster said, on a different thread, the disparity in points doesn't carry over to Taylor not giving a good fight. Some rounds were close and how they ended up being scored can vary depending on each person's interpretation. Taylor did well, but lost on points in quite a few rounds, although still deserves credit for his performance is my take on it.

I had it 116-112 but could have easily gave Pavlik a couple more rounds so I see nothing wrong with your score.

Taylor improved a lot and had much better head movement but lets be honest he was still getting tagged a lot. He has a lot of natural ability but he does nothing great. He has speed but he doesn't use it, his power is average and his defense went from non existent to okay.

It was an entertaining bout yesterday but the standard was a few notches below Calzaghe Kessler.

[kentgrad]

i had pavlik winning close 115-113 sounds very fair to me. fight was good not excellent in my opinion i am hoping they are not considering pavlik taylor 3 but was very entertaining and glad i went to local bar to watch. congrats again kelly now get home and celebrate in youngstown with all of us

[straycat]

Draw
Hats off to JT. My oppinion changed quite a bit favorably.
The non tittle 164 thing may of left the door open to quitely keep Kellys rising popularity intact.
Look for Pavlik unification serries to be Arums latest money making venture.

The non-title bout was something Taylor's people insisted on prior to Taylor defending against Pavlik. They could not legally insist on a rematch with the middleweight title on the line because Pavlik was the mandatory contender. Rematch clauses (involving the title) are prohibited when a champion is defending against a mandatory challenger.

Pavlik agreed to the non-title rematch because his management was afraid Taylor's people would have him vacate and move to 168 unless the catchweight rematch clause was accepted. Pavlik would have still been able to fight for either the WBC or WBO title (not both because the two organizations had different #2 contenders: WBC- Giovanni Lorenzo, WBO- Gary Lockett) but would have been fighting for a vacant alphabet soup title rather than the lineal version that went along with Taylor's WBC and WBO belts.

Thanks for your input KSTAT:
I did'nt intend to sound like I was making any rasberrie sounds here. I realize this was Taylors desires to have the remacth clause at a 164, maybe if he put a title remacth things could of been viewed differently. the belts could of changed hands and lead to a third fight. Thats where I was going with it.

[scappoosejohn]

I scored the fight 117 to 111 for Pavlik. But like Lurkster said, on a different thread, the disparity in points doesn't carry over to Taylor not giving a good fight. Some rounds were close and how they ended up being scored can vary depending on each person's interpretation. Taylor did well, but lost on points in quite a few rounds, although still deserves credit for his performance is my take on it.

I had it 116-112 but could have easily gave Pavlik a couple more rounds so I see nothing wrong with your score.

Taylor improved a lot and had much better head movement but lets be honest he was still getting tagged a lot. He has a lot of natural ability but he does nothing great. He has speed but he doesn't use it, his power is average and his defense went from non existent to okay.

It was an entertaining bout yesterday but the standard was a few notches below Calzaghe Kessler.

That's pretty much how I saw it. But what gets me is that a lot are saying a score of 117-111 is outrageous and still don't argue a score of 116-112. That's only a difference of giving one more round to Taylor instead of Pavlik for a 116-112. I'm thinking that some people see the numbers without doing the arithmetic.

[RASTA666]

I scored the fight 117 to 111 for Pavlik. But like Lurkster said, on a different thread, the disparity in points doesn't carry over to Taylor not giving a good fight. Some rounds were close and how they ended up being scored can vary depending on each person's interpretation. Taylor did well, but lost on points in quite a few rounds, although still deserves credit for his performance is my take on it.

I had it 116-112 but could have easily gave Pavlik a couple more rounds so I see nothing wrong with your score.

Taylor improved a lot and had much better head movement but lets be honest he was still getting tagged a lot. He has a lot of natural ability but he does nothing great. He has speed but he doesn't use it, his power is average and his defense went from non existent to okay.

It was an entertaining bout yesterday but the standard was a few notches below Calzaghe Kessler.

That's pretty much how I saw it. But what gets me is that a lot are saying a score of 117-111 is outrageous and still don't argue a score of 116-112. That's only a difference of giving one more round to Taylor instead of Pavlik for a 116-112. I'm thinking that some people see the numbers without doing the arithmetic.

Lol 117/111 I have a problem with. It is outrageous lol.

[Tommy]

I scored the fight 117 to 111 for Pavlik. But like Lurkster said, on a different thread, the disparity in points doesn't carry over to Taylor not giving a good fight. Some rounds were close and how they ended up being scored can vary depending on each person's interpretation. Taylor did well, but lost on points in quite a few rounds, although still deserves credit for his performance is my take on it.

I had it 116-112 but could have easily gave Pavlik a couple more rounds so I see nothing wrong with your score.

Taylor improved a lot and had much better head movement but lets be honest he was still getting tagged a lot. He has a lot of natural ability but he does nothing great. He has speed but he doesn't use it, his power is average and his defense went from non existent to okay.

It was an entertaining bout yesterday but the standard was a few notches below Calzaghe Kessler.

That's pretty much how I saw it. But what gets me is that a lot are saying a score of 117-111 is outrageous and still don't argue a score of 116-112. That's only a difference of giving one more round to Taylor instead of Pavlik for a 116-112. I'm thinking that some people see the numbers without doing the arithmetic.

Yeah the way I see it Pavlik dominated every round (bar rd 10 which was all Taylor) with his aggression and work rate. Taylor was fighting in spurts and trying to steal the rds. I thought he did enough to steal 3 to give him a total of 4.
Fighting in spurts is dangerous and Taylor wasn't slick enough to pull it off against Kelly.

[straycat]

The 117 111 thing was kind of funny in some instances, but all in the eye of who's accountabilty mattered the most, the one who was picked to judge the fight.
With Cotto/Mosely it was good enough for the judges to give Cooto rounds when all he did was land a harder shot than Mosely even though the shot it's self did little to detract Mosely from what he was doing in that round. {BTW I had Mosely in that fight}
With this fight, Taylor was able in a few rounds to land bigger shots that in some instances took Kelly out of the offensive posture he was in and had him trying to cover up and change what he was doing.

[scappoosejohn]

I had it 116-112 but could have easily gave Pavlik a couple more rounds so I see nothing wrong with your score.

Taylor improved a lot and had much better head movement but lets be honest he was still getting tagged a lot. He has a lot of natural ability but he does nothing great. He has speed but he doesn't use it, his power is average and his defense went from non existent to okay.

It was an entertaining bout yesterday but the standard was a few notches below Calzaghe Kessler.

That's pretty much how I saw it. But what gets me is that a lot are saying a score of 117-111 is outrageous and still don't argue a score of 116-112. That's only a difference of giving one more round to Taylor instead of Pavlik for a 116-112. I'm thinking that some people see the numbers without doing the arithmetic.

Lol 117/111 I have a problem with. It is outrageous lol.

So what was your score? And is 116-112 a fair score? Just curious.

[pidgeHHH]

116-112 Pavlik.

[RASTA666]

That's pretty much how I saw it. But what gets me is that a lot are saying a score of 117-111 is outrageous and still don't argue a score of 116-112. That's only a difference of giving one more round to Taylor instead of Pavlik for a 116-112. I'm thinking that some people see the numbers without doing the arithmetic.

Lol 117/111 I have a problem with. It is outrageous lol.

So what was your score? And is 116-112 a fair score? Just curious.

I lean to a split for Kelly. Scap 117/111 is close to a shut out? I believe the right guy won. 115/113 across the board is still a ud.
117/111 suggests something that never happened.

[scappoosejohn]

Lol 117/111 I have a problem with. It is outrageous lol.

So what was your score? And is 116-112 a fair score? Just curious.

I lean to a split for Kelly. Scap 117/111 is close to a shut out? I believe the right guy won. 115/113 across the board is still a ud.
117/111 suggests something that never happened.

I'm not suggesting that something never happened. To the contrary, there were close rounds although I gave them to Pavlik. Taylor gave it a good shot but fell short and the rounds I gave him were 2,3 and 10. Also, I can understand that others would of given more rounds to Jermaine depending on their own interpretation of scoring.

I'm aware that many will disagree with me but that's how I viewed the fight.

[RASTA666]

So what was your score? And is 116-112 a fair score? Just curious.

I lean to a split for Kelly. Scap 117/111 is close to a shut out? I believe the right guy won. 115/113 across the board is still a ud.
117/111 suggests something that never happened.

I'm not suggesting that something never happened. To the contrary, there were close rounds although I gave them to Pavlik. Taylor gave it a good shot but fell short and the rounds I gave him were 2,3 and 10. Also, I can understand that others would of given more rounds to Jermaine depending on their own interpretation of scoring.

I'm aware that many will disagree with me but that's how I viewed the fight.

Fair enough. I never saw a 9 rd to 3 fight.

[westtm]

Pav won the fight. 115/113 sits well. 117/111 is out to lunch.

Yep, that's my feeling too!

[Tommy]

I think what Lurk and Scap are saying is being overlooked. A fighter can win 12 very close rounds and win a closely fought contest 120-108.