Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

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Tocsin
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Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by Tocsin »

Fury
Joshua
Wilder
Wlad
Vitali
Ruiz
Byrd
Bowe
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by ObJuan13 »

1. Wlad - His wins weren’t the biggest, but the longevity dwarfs everyone else’s

2. Fury - Career is still going on so who knows... But he’s undefeated and beat a long reigning champ

3. Bowe - I think the Holyfield win may be the best overall win on the list.

4. Vitali - Same as Wlad, but less longevity and weaker resume

5. Wilder - Placed here mostly due to KO streak

6. Joshua - Falls behind Wilder because of the bad KO loss

7. Byrd - Was always gonna be at the bottom of this list with Ruiz, but had a slightly better career than Ruiz.

8. Ruiz - Beat an old Holyfield, but what else really
Last edited by ObJuan13 on Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by gilgamesh »

1. Wlad - Just a notch above Fury still for now, but not by much. The longevity of his reign, and a few pretty noteworthy wins keeps him barely ahead.

2. Fury - Having beaten a dominant Champ (albeit in a boring as hell fight), and now having beaten an undefeated KO artist who had been in the midst of a fairly long reign himself. He's established himself as the man to beat of the moment, and a win over AJ would pretty well clearly establish him as the best Heavyweight of the century thus far.

3. Riddick Bowe - Wins over a Prime Evander Holyfield, who in my opinion is a Top 5 all time Heavyweight speak a lot about how talented Bowe was. You seldom see a prime come and go as fast as Bowe's, but he was excellent at his very best.

4. Wilder - A solid reign, really only beat a few contenders at best during the reign, but the KO rate and excitement factor is quite spectacular.

5. Joshua - Has beaten more Top 10 guys still than either Wilder or Fury actually, just hasn't beaten nor tangled with either of the big 2, plus of course got knocked out by Andy Ruiz, which lowered his rep quite a bit.

6. Vitali Klitschko - Lost the biggest fight he ever had, Didn't beat too many particularly noteworthy opponents honestly. Obviously a difficult fighter to face. Powerful, strong, but came up short against the 2 biggest names he ever faced. One of whom will be ranked under him on this list. Gets the injury excuse, but the fact of the matter is he never beat guys that were better than Lewis or Byrd.

7. Byrd - Flukish victory over Vitali is probably his best win. That or blanking an old Holyfield. Fairly mediocre title reign where he almost always struggled badly to scrape out narrow decisions.

8. Ruiz - Pretty much the most boring fighter ever is his legacy, and yes wins over an old Holyfield is the best he's got really. Either that or Rahman.
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Tocsin
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by Tocsin »

Thanks for the lists. I think Byrd's set of wins is actually pretty good on the surface

Vitali
Tua
Holyfield (old, but had just beaten Rahman and wasn't totally shot)
Oquendo
McCline

But like you've said, in a couple of these he either just squeaked by or won in what appeared to be very flukish circumstances. The Tua win was probably his best, as he totally schooled him and Tua still had some good results after that fight. Despite those close calls and a very unappealing style, I do have a lot of respect for him to have the success he did as a 6 foot tall dude who finished up as a middleweight (!) in the amateurs and was blown up and soft even at 210.
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by straycat »

Ruiz did get jobbed against that big loaf Valuev
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

Tocsin wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:27 pm Fury
Joshua
Wilder
Wlad
Vitali
Ruiz
Byrd
Bowe

Actual accomplishments

Wlad
Fury
Joshua
Wilder
Bowe
Ruiz
Byrd
Vitali


Wlad clearly 1. Vitali is a great fighter but his best wins are corrie sanders and sam peter. He lost to byrd. Bowe is tough. 2 monster wins and other than that.....
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

Ruiz has good wins.

Holyfield
Rahman
Oquendo
Golota
Mcline

He definitely got the most out of his talent

He did get jobbed against valuev. And toney cheated him by using steroids.
Last edited by jeff_lacy_ko on Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tocsin
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by Tocsin »

I agree with that for the most part, but I wouldn't rate Wilder ahead of Bowe. Those Holyfield wins are excellent, and Bowe beat a number of guys I wouldn't rank any lower than the likes of Breazeale, Szpilka, or Gerald Washington.
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by Tocsin »

Ya, I think Ruiz and Byrd both have overlooked accomplishments, that's why I included them
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

Yeah i dont know where to put bowe. Struggled with him most. 2 huge wins over prime holyfield but it was a short reig. And entirely his own fault
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

Tocsin wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:26 pm I agree with that for the most part, but I wouldn't rate Wilder ahead of Bowe. Those Holyfield wins are excellent, and Bowe beat a number of guys I wouldn't rank any lower than the likes of Breazeale, Szpilka, or Gerald Washington.
Thats true... larry donald is better than anyone other than ortiz on wilders resume
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by Pangloss »

1. Wlad - by a pretty wide margin
2. Vitali
3. Fury (likely pass Vitali, but unlikely to have the longevity and consistency to get above Wlad)
4. Bowe - brief, but was relatively inarguably (somebody will always argue) the top guy at at least one point, similar to the three above.

The other four are all below those 4 IMO because they’ve never been that guy, so:

5. Joshua
6. Wilder
7. Byrd
8. Ruiz
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by Tocsin »

Buster Douglas is a bit like a lesser Bowe---a great win, and some decent other wins (often overlooked), but then not a lot and only a short time at the top. Of course Buster's record is far more spotty with losses too.
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

Bowe has 2 wins over holyfield and was the first to stop him.... correct?

I know stench loves vitali but his resume lacks actual good wins. I dont doubt head to head hes 1st or 2nd though
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by Tocsin »

Vitali should always rank much higher on ability than he should on accomplishments. He is arguably last on this list I think in terms of wins.
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

To be fair wilder has 2 wins over ortiz and a fury draw

The rest if his wins arent on the same level as peter, chisora or sanders
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

I dont know if ortiz is better than corrie sanders
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by marciano1952 »

Wlad
Fury
Vitali....Peter, Adamek, Sanders, Hide, Chisora, Donald, undefeated Johnson, Solis and Arreola...I think they are getting a bit overlooked...Better than Wilder Noticeably IMO
Bowe
Joshua

The other 3 are kinda interchangeable to me....Byrd has the better Wins on paper but Wilder Managed to keep his Trinket Longer....
Wilder
Byrd
Ruiz
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

marciano1952 wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:26 pm Wlad
Fury
Vitali....Peter, Adamek, Sanders, Hide, Chisora, Donald, undefeated Johnson, Solis and Arreola...I think they are getting a bit overlooked...Better than Wilder Noticeably IMO
Bowe
Joshua

The other 3 are kinda interchangeable to me....Byrd has the better Wins on paper but Wilder Managed to keep his Trinket Longer....
Wilder
Byrd
Ruiz
Kingpin is a journeyman. Arreola and adamek arent any better than stiverne. Solis never did anything. Chisora is ok... but has been kod by a lot if guys when vitali went the distance
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by marciano1952 »

Johnson became a Journeyman....but at the time leading up he actually tried to win fights unlike now....

Molina(journeyman)
Szpilka(gatekeeper)
Washington
Breazeale(punchingbag)
(Jouneyyman)
Shot Arreola,....

Ill give him Stiverne But his only claim to fame is a Good style Matchup with Arreola Similar to Adamek....Rematch Stiverne was Fat and didnt Train......Ortiz hasnt done anything other than look good vs Wilder for a Few rounds since he beat Jennings years ago...

The time the fights took place Matter....

Adamek-Former Crusierweight Champion(Lineal) Moving up and had a notable Win over Arreola, He Also Managed Wins over Chambers, and USS Following....
Sanders-was Fresh off the upset of Wlad
Peter-was WBC Champion and Vitali was Coming off 4yr layoff(or close)
Solis-was undefeated and had a noticeable amount of Hype....Ate Himself out of the game later on...He Is Similar to Ortiz In my mind...Skilled but Held back(Weight vs age)
Arreola-was the HBO Golden boy at the time....Vitali made him quite....
Hide-Had one loss to Bowe, and was WBO champion....Wasnt Watching during this time But Hide seems to have had a decent Reputation going into the fight...


Not to Mention Vitali Dominated While Wilder Struggled with many of his.....Even Molina Had Wilder Wobble a Little....


Vitali's work has been gettign underrated While Wilder has been getting over Rated here....jmo
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by gilgamesh »

jeff_lacy_ko wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:25 pm Ruiz has good wins.

Holyfield
Rahman
Oquendo
Golota
Mcline

He definitely got the most out of his talent

He did get jobbed against valuev. And toney cheated him by using steroids.
Byrd beat McCline. Ruiz never fought him. Toney kicked his ass, and got falsely accused of steroids :mrgreen: (big Toney fan, I'm being a bit of a smartass)
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by gilgamesh »

jeff_lacy_ko wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:47 pm I dont know if ortiz is better than corrie sanders
He doesn't have any wins as good as Corrie's win over Wlad. Ortiz that is.
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by gilgamesh »

Tocsin wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:01 pm Vitali should always rank much higher on ability than he should on accomplishments. He is arguably last on this list I think in terms of wins.
Yes, that's how I look at him. I don't doubt at all, that a fit, prime Vitali is an absolute handful for almost anybody in Heavyweight Boxing history, but ultimately he just doesn't have all that great of a resume to be considered one of the true Elites in the divisions history.

The fact that he failed to stop guys like Shannon Briggs and Chisora doesn't really help him. He beat the ever loving shit out of Briggs, damn near killed him, but he didn't stop him.

So he has a lofty KO percentage actually, but his punching power often came up short in fights where you'd think it shouldn't have.
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by ObJuan13 »

I think Vitali’s resume is somewhere at the bottom of this list, but most of his wins were dominant, his Byrd loss was due to an injury and weak heart... and I don’t know whether to punish for that on a list like this or give him the benefit of the injury

And he pushed Lennox in his other loss... but the remainder of his resume is far from impressive. I think that along with him having the benefit of a completed career puts him ahead of Wilder and AJ... Wilder has a similar career so far... pushed Fury much further than anyone else, and KO’d everyone else, but he struggled in ways Vitali didn’t...

Lennox is better than Fury so Vitali gets the edge there... dominance outside of these fights is a wash. No way Wilder quits against Byrd, but he struggles a lil too often in his non Fury fights to give him the edge

AJ has better resume plain and simple from top to bottom, but has an egregious loss and lacks Vitali’a longevity
Last edited by ObJuan13 on Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rank their accomplishments (heavyweights)

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

AJ was beaten by ruiz and avenged it. Vitali quit against chris byrd. To me that is inexcusable

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