Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

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ObJuan13
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Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:50 pm

Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay
Tommy Hearns
Roy Jones
Ray Leonard
Ricardo Lopez
Vasyl Lomachenko
Floyd Mayweather
Manny Pacquiao
Ray Robinson
Mike Tyson
Pernell Whitaker

Edit: Can’t believe I forgot Mike Tyson. Adding him in, the list is now up to 11
Last edited by ObJuan13 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tocsin
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by Tocsin » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:28 pm

Loma last

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:28 pm

Tocsin wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:28 pm
Loma last
Tough to say, he’s still writing his story. If he could move up a few more divisions and get some wins who knows, maybe he’ll show us something new...

but the eastern block guys and Cuban guys turn pro so late and I think it hurts their legacies, but I guess we’re not talking about legacy here.

But yeah, I probably agree with you

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:46 pm

But let me give this a shot

1. Roy Jones - p4p fastest guy I’ve ever seen by a pretty wide margin. Extremely quick on his feet and head movement was elite. Power was amongst the top in every division he ever fought in other than HW. Graceful as a ballerina, and could hit fighters with the most unorthodox punches because he was just better than they were. An awe inspiring talent... we didn’t find out until the tail end of his career, but the only thing he lacked was chin. Best physical attribute was his speed.

2. Ray Robinson - Crushing power, great speed, good quickness, explosive recoil type of puncher. Fluid hands, but could have been more fluid on his feet. Looked to me like he sacrificed fluid feet because he always wanted to be in position to deliver punches with power, and he was able to do just that... Was never stopped (except for the heatwave fight at 175 against Maxim) in an era of 15 rd fights and 6 oz gloves. As phenomenally talented as he was, his greatest physical attribute was his chin.

3. Cassius Clay - Floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee. Super speedy and lengthy fighter with ultra fluid body movements, who set the bar for grace in the ring, the all time best in that regard. Great feet, amongst the best ever. Not a huge puncher, but very snappy, and accurate with a great recoil. Very solid chin. His greatest physical attribute was his grace.
Last edited by ObJuan13 on Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:17 am

4. Ray Leonard - Another guy who had it all, and I was very tempted to put him at #3, but felt Ali’s grace was so head and shoulders above everyone else’s that it made up for what he lacked in p4p power, and placed him at #3. But I digress, Leonard’s speed was blinding, his power was devastating and he had a dancer’s feet. It’s one thing to watch him do his thing against other legends, but watching him fight ordinary contenders who he wasn’t overly threatened by was a ridiculous sight. He ran over guys with his speed, movement and power (Dave Boy Green, Andy Pryce, Daniel Gonzalez). And he had a solid chin for good measure. Greatest physical attribute was his speed.

5. Floyd Mayweather Jr. - His career just ended and the old version of Floyd may still be in the forefront of a lot our minds, but the guy who fought at 130 and 135 was absolutely dynamic. Moved around a ring like no one else, with a blend of quickness, speed and fluidity I’ve never seen. Ali had the most graceful feet ever, but Floyd may have had the best, slightly ahead of Roy Jones. Head movement was impeccable (just see his pull counter) and he could bend at the waist like he was Gumby (I’ve seen the guy duck under body shots). Had enough quickness, speed and power to jump in and out of the pocket fearlessly and make guys pay (see Chico Coralles fight), but what always stood out to me was his ability to be so damn accurate regardless of his punch selection. Everything hit its mark. His greatest physical attribute was his accuracy

6. Thomas Hearns - His power and length were just plain offensive to think about. Crushing power, great accuracy and high end speed. He’d get into the ring with guys and the way he treated them would have you questioning how the fight was even sanctioned, and I’m talking about legends like Duran. He could move his feet well enough but he could be caught off balance due to his long gait and bounce, but this was problem with technique and not talent. He’s a guy who had a shot at #1 on this list if his chin didn’t fail him as many times as it did. His greatest physical attribute was his power.
Last edited by ObJuan13 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:45 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:28 am

7. Mike Tyson - Hands down the most explosive fighter ever. Threw the p4p fastest meaningful 2 to 3 punch combinations ever. Had the type of speed and power that turned his opponents into heaps on the canvas and casual fans into die hard fans. Watching Mike Tyson for the first time was like watching Pulp Fiction for the first time; it instantly transformed you into a fan of the art form. He never danced but he never had to and it wouldn’t have served him well, so it’s hard to rate his footwork, but he was ALWAYS in position to deliver with devastating power, so I’ll say he had good feet. His chin was solid and his head movement was great, especially considering he was pretty much always the shorter man and his opponents had the luxury of punching down at him, but he still managed to make them miss more than enough. But everyone knows why he’s on this list and he may very would have been #1 if he 3 inches taller or so, but the guy had excessive power and speed, he fought like a Lamborghini drives, and he did so as a 5’10 HW. Greatest physical attribute was his explosiveness

8. Manny Pacquiao - Another explosive dynamo of a fighter. His hands were blazing fast and his feet were just as fast and he was gonna use them on you simultaneously. When he was throwing the one-two he was jumping in at you at the same time, putting extreme pressure on you and most guys just flat out didn’t think and move fast enough to handle him. And when they realized what had happened they’d likely be pulling themselves off of the canvas. His technique was so damn simple but his speed and talent so overwhelming that it didn’t matter, you’re not gonna outsmart a bullet and you’re not gonna think your way out of ass whooping from Pac unless you got some serious talent yourself. Had a granite chin in his prime to go along with the speed and power. Would be higher up the list if he had the grace to go along with the explosiveness. Like Tyson, his greatest physical attribute was his explosiveness.

9. Pernell Whitaker - Smooth as butter. He was a contortionist with fast hands and the lightest feet the sport has seen outside of Cassius Clay. He was so hard to hit; think Gale Sayers if he was a fighter. And he was fluid in every way possible, smooth hands, smooth head movement, smooth feet, moved his waist without the slighted hitch. Underrated and seemingly never talked about chin. Pretty much only suffered flash knockdowns (until he was old against Trinidad) due to being on cruise control at points. He didn’t have great pop but could dig deep and hurt you if necessary. Was a better boxer than most guys on this list and holds a special place in my heart due to his heart, spirit and mental toughness, but this list is about talent, and his lack of great power has him down near the bottom. His greatest attribute was his grace.
Last edited by ObJuan13 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:53 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:23 am

10. Ricardo “Finito” Lopez - If you had your guard up he was gonna wrap his punches around it. If you fought behind a peek a boo guard, he was gonna slip in a jab or straight when you peeked. His accuracy and penchant to throw more than one punch at a time while landing the majority of them demoralized pretty much everyone he ever fought. He moved very well, but was such an adept ring general that his opponents often marched to the beat of his drum, so I feel his footwork and defense are under appreciated. Had great head movement and fought like an artist. On the Mt. Rushmore of great Mexican fighters with Zarate, Sanchez and Chavez and is the most talented. If he fought in a sexier division he’d get his due. Greatest physical attribute was his ability to throw a punch, and as vague as that sounds, if you watched him then you know what I mean.

11. Vasyl Lomachenko - Precise in everything he does, Loma makes the list because he lacks nothing. No one attribute will overwhelm you, but the combination of everything in his bag has been too much for just about everyone he has fought. He’s quick, he’s fast, he’s got good pop, has quick feet, has fluid hands, has fluid feet and solid chin. Has the ability to make other extremely talented fighters look pedestrian, because you’re never that much better than Loma at anything... you’re never that much faster, or quicker, or hit that much harder or have that much of a better chin... and even when holding one or two advantages over him, he often has you beat in several other areas, just ask Gary Russell, Jorge Linares, and Luke Campbell. His greatest physical attribute is his fluidity.
Last edited by ObJuan13 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:06 pm, edited 12 times in total.

elterrible
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by elterrible » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm

Your list looks pretty good. My top 3 are ray, ray and roy. Roy didn't get to test his skills against the same level of opposition as the Rays. Ali and floyd would be in the next tier for me.

Tocsin
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by Tocsin » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:14 pm

It's tough for me to split a lot of these guys. I feel most confident on ranking Loma and Lopez behind the others on pure talent. On skill they wouldn't be last though.

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:57 am

elterrible wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm
Your list looks pretty good. My top 3 are ray, ray and roy. Roy didn't get to test his skills against the same level of opposition as the Rays. Ali and floyd would be in the next tier for me.
Which Ray did you have #1?

And yeah Roy definitely didn’t fight the same level of comp, but he was just so damn fast I had to put him at 1, but I could have just as easily put him 2 or 3 so you’re not gonna get any argument from me.

I had Ali as high as I did because I feel like the way he moved and his grace were just so valuable and led him to wins in ways other physical attributes don’t... pre suspension Cassius Clay/young Ali, not the older one... but I could see him being 4th too

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:01 am

Tocsin wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:14 pm
It's tough for me to split a lot of these guys. I feel most confident on ranking Loma and Lopez behind the others on pure talent. On skill they wouldn't be last though.
Yeah, those two are tough... I don’t wanna chalk up everything they got goin on to skill because they throw so much at you gotta believe there’s some serious talent there... I don’t know whether to call it proprioception or what, but they got it.

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the13r
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by the13r » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:03 am

at their prime weight, these 3 are extremely rare boxing talent packages
Roy Jones
Ray Leonard
Ricardo Lopez

Offensively talented, doesn't get any better... anything is possible as far as pulling off anything in the ring... can't get more talented than these 3

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:17 pm

the13r wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:03 am
at their prime weight, these 3 are extremely rare boxing talent packages
Roy Jones
Ray Leonard
Ricardo Lopez

Offensively talented, doesn't get any better... anything is possible as far as pulling off anything in the ring... can't get more talented than these 3
Interesting... if you find the time you should rank the entire list

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Just a guy
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by Just a guy » Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:59 pm

I can't disagree with Objuan's list or reasoning.

This is an interesting question. I could make arguments to move Tyson down on that list and to move Hearns down - but I could make stronger arguments to keep them where they are. Well done - both with the question and OB's breakdown.
No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.

Homer J. Simpson

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:08 pm

Just a guy wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:59 pm
I can't disagree with Objuan's list or reasoning.

This is an interesting question. I could make arguments to move Tyson down on that list and to move Hearns down - but I could make stronger arguments to keep them where they are. Well done - both with the question and OB's breakdown.
Thanks, Guy... you should rank em

elterrible
Posts: 116

Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by elterrible » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:37 pm

ObJuan13 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:57 am
elterrible wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm
Your list looks pretty good. My top 3 are ray, ray and roy. Roy didn't get to test his skills against the same level of opposition as the Rays. Ali and floyd would be in the next tier for me.
Which Ray did you have #1?

And yeah Roy definitely didn’t fight the same level of comp, but he was just so damn fast I had to put him at 1, but I could have just as easily put him 2 or 3 so you’re not gonna get any argument from me.

I had Ali as high as I did because I feel like the way he moved and his grace were just so valuable and led him to wins in ways other physical attributes don’t... pre suspension Cassius Clay/young Ali, not the older one... but I could see him being 4th too
Robinson first. Leonard may have been quicker but, srr was the total package of speed, power and combination punching.

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ObJuan13
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Re: Rank these 10 fighters according to talent

Post by ObJuan13 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:53 pm

elterrible wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:37 pm
ObJuan13 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:57 am
elterrible wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm
Your list looks pretty good. My top 3 are ray, ray and roy. Roy didn't get to test his skills against the same level of opposition as the Rays. Ali and floyd would be in the next tier for me.
Which Ray did you have #1?

And yeah Roy definitely didn’t fight the same level of comp, but he was just so damn fast I had to put him at 1, but I could have just as easily put him 2 or 3 so you’re not gonna get any argument from me.

I had Ali as high as I did because I feel like the way he moved and his grace were just so valuable and led him to wins in ways other physical attributes don’t... pre suspension Cassius Clay/young Ali, not the older one... but I could see him being 4th too
Robinson first. Leonard may have been quicker but, srr was the total package of speed, power and combination punching.
I agree. He was a beast

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