Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

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Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Slippery Pete II »

https://twitter.com/MikeCoppinger/statu ... 5425840128

According to Mike Coppinger the fight did between 800-850K buys. That's a pretty good number.

Apparently Bob Arum said they needed 850K to break even seeing as how both guys were guaranteed $25 million.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by TheSickness316 »

Is this number based on who ordered the fight through their cable company? Or also include those who ordered through the ESPN+ app?
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Primetyme199 »

https://www.boxingscene.com/fury-wilder ... 00--147143

Fury-Wilder Produced Just Over 750,000 PPV Buys; Could Reach 800,000

The 750,000 figure includes purchases through In Demand (all cable systems), DirecTV, Dish Network, ESPN+ and the FOX Sports app.

---------------------------------------------------------

The Tyson Fury-Deontay Wilder rematch was the most-watched heavyweight pay-per-view fight in the United States in more than 17 years.

Their heavily hyped showdown did not, however, reach the expectations of its optimistic organizers.

BoxingScene.com has learned that the event is projected to have produced slightly more than 750,000 pay-per-view buys in the U.S., the highest rate for a heavyweight fight through that platform since Lennox Lewis-Mike Tyson in June 2002. Lewis’ eighth-round knockout of Tyson generated roughly 1,970,000 buys, the second-highest total for a heavyweight fight in pay-per-view history.

The most pay-per-view buys in the U.S. for a heavyweight boxing match is 1,990,000 for the Evander Holyfield-Tyson rematch, the infamous “Bite Fight” in June 1997.

The Fury-Wilder rematch, which England’s Fury won by seventh-round technical knockout Saturday night at MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, eventually could crack or at least approach 800,000 buys. That can’t happen until all cable companies submit each purchase made through those outlets.

Typically, most buys are tallied within six months from cable and satellite operators. In rare instances, smaller cable companies can take more than a year after an event to fully report buy rates.

However, results for digital buys through ESPN+ and the FOX Sports app, two newer ways to purchase pay-per-view boxing events, are available within a few days after those fights.

The 750,000 figure includes purchases through In Demand (all cable systems), DirecTV, Dish Network, ESPN+ and the FOX Sports app.

While successful compared to almost all pay-per-view boxing events, the Fury-Wilder rematch didn’t quite produce the type of business many experts expected. Bob Arum, Fury’s co-promoter, predicted that Fury-Wilder II would reach two million pay-per-view buys because he was encouraged by an unprecedented promotional push from FOX and ESPN, the co-distributors of the event.

In addition to an abundance of advertising and shoulder programming on those two networks, FOX aired two Fury-Wilder commercials during its telecast of Super Bowl LIV on February 2. Each of those spots was watched by more than 100 million viewers in the U.S.

ESPN, which has an exclusive contract with Arum’s Top Rank Inc. and Fury, and FOX, which works with adviser Al Haymon and Wilder, have massive reach within the U.S.

ESPN, a basic cable channel, has 83 million subscribers in the U.S. FOX, one of the country’s four major broadcast networks, is available in nearly 120 million American homes.

Based on voluminous amount of coverage, pre-fight expectations for the buy rate were high, as two boxing industry insiders with extensive experience in pay-per-view told BoxingScene.com last week that they anticipated the Fury-Wilder rematch to eclipse one million buys. About 1.1 million buys is believed to have been the number needed for the networks and promoters to break even on the event.

As usual, though, piracy impacted the buy rate for a rematch that was offered at a suggested retail price of $79.99 to watch in HD.

The first Fury-Wilder fight produced between 300,000 and 325,000 pay-per-view buys. Showtime solely distributed their first fight, which resulted in a controversial split draw in December 2018 at Staples Center in Los Angeles.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Canvas »

Disaster financially. They will be lucky to break even and probably will lose money. It would be a good number for a less expensive promotion, but they spent millions on advertising and the guarantees were high. I figured it would do about 650k, so it did better than I thought it would.

I doubt the promoters are going to want to finance a third unless purses are lower. The fight was so one sided that very few people are going to want to pay to watch it a third time after they already watched Fury win twice. PPV is a terrible model for boxing.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by jeff_lacy_ko »

This is an awful number

This was heavily hyped and promoted. Breaking even shows salaries are way too high given the sports dwindling audience .
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Mayz »

Wow, surely it's more than that?!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ8IZ3iW_UM&t=4m43s
HAHAHAHA!! :lol: :lol:

'You know why Deontay Wilder sucks? Let me break it down for his bumboys, fanboys and internet fans that like sucking him off. AJ loses. He was so over the moon, so happy. Dude they was offering you more than $100m to fight him! You made 4-5m to fight Ortiz bruv! Are you stupid? Are you fucking stupid?!' - Dillian Whyte

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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Mayz »

UK numbers should be OK, but 5am fight... 3 of my mates stayed up to watch it... Lol

Don't think any of them paid for though... :wink:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ8IZ3iW_UM&t=4m43s
HAHAHAHA!! :lol: :lol:

'You know why Deontay Wilder sucks? Let me break it down for his bumboys, fanboys and internet fans that like sucking him off. AJ loses. He was so over the moon, so happy. Dude they was offering you more than $100m to fight him! You made 4-5m to fight Ortiz bruv! Are you stupid? Are you fucking stupid?!' - Dillian Whyte

'Eddie Hearn has almost single-handedly helped raise the profile of boxing in the U.S.' - Kevin Iole
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by TheSickness316 »

Canvas wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:56 am Disaster financially. They will be lucky to break even and probably will lose money. It would be a good number for a less expensive promotion, but they spent millions on advertising and the guarantees were high. I figured it would do about 650k, so it did better than I thought it would.

I doubt the promoters are going to want to finance a third unless purses are lower. The fight was so one sided that very few people are going to want to pay to watch it a third time after they already watched Fury win twice. PPV is a terrible model for boxing.
The promoters won't have a choice with the rematch clause.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by TheSickness316 »

Even if we go with the 750k number, I think that means the fight made more money PPV wise than Joshua vs. Ruiz 2. And if that's true, say goodbye to 50-50 split for a possible Fury vs. Joshua fight and hello to 60-40 split in favor of Fury.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Mayz »

On the bright side, this is great news for AJ/Fury...

Only one fight to make now... *fingers crossed*

Bob for sure will be pushing for AJ now
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ8IZ3iW_UM&t=4m43s
HAHAHAHA!! :lol: :lol:

'You know why Deontay Wilder sucks? Let me break it down for his bumboys, fanboys and internet fans that like sucking him off. AJ loses. He was so over the moon, so happy. Dude they was offering you more than $100m to fight him! You made 4-5m to fight Ortiz bruv! Are you stupid? Are you fucking stupid?!' - Dillian Whyte

'Eddie Hearn has almost single-handedly helped raise the profile of boxing in the U.S.' - Kevin Iole
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Danielk015 »

Wow, this is a terrible result. I thought this fight could do 1.5m PPV with all the promotional push, but going under $1mil, everyone is taking a huge bath in red ink right now. Unless ESPN and Fox will give a better percentage than cable companies, this fight generated around $40m max for the promotion. $50mil guaranteed for the main even fighters and all the other costs, they are deep in the hole.

I can't remember any other fighter other than Wilder where the promotion consistently lost huge money over some of the recent bigger purses that fighter earned.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Danielk015 »

TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:00 pm Even if we go with the 750k number, I think that means the fight made more money PPV wise than Joshua vs. Ruiz 2. And if that's true, say goodbye to 50-50 split for a possible Fury vs. Joshua fight and hello to 60-40 split in favor of Fury.
Wan't AJ Ruiz 2 on DAZN in the US? it is hard to compare those PPV. Hearn was able to get like $40m site fee for the fight. Plus UK PPV, DAZN priced in, I would assume AJ Ruiz 2 generated more revenue. AJ take home plus Ruiz take home was more than this $50m minimum and no one has talked about that fight being a financial disaster.

This is like the recent terminator or Xmen movie that hit theatres recently, a total bomb at the box office.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by TheSickness316 »

Danielk015 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:24 pm
TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:00 pm Even if we go with the 750k number, I think that means the fight made more money PPV wise than Joshua vs. Ruiz 2. And if that's true, say goodbye to 50-50 split for a possible Fury vs. Joshua fight and hello to 60-40 split in favor of Fury.
Wan't AJ Ruiz 2 on DAZN in the US? it is hard to compare those PPV. Hearn was able to get like $40m site fee for the fight. Plus UK PPV, DAZN priced in, I would assume AJ Ruiz 2 generated more revenue. AJ take home plus Ruiz take home was more than this $50m minimum and no one has talked about that fight being a financial disaster.

This is like the recent terminator or Xmen movie that hit theatres recently, a total bomb at the box office.
It's not that hard to compare considering the UK PPV for Joshua and Ruiz 2. US PPV for this fight (since its PPV) generated more money than Ruiz and Joshua 2 did. Look at what I wrote, I said PPV wise, this fight made more money.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Mayz »

Danielk015 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:24 pm
TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:00 pm Even if we go with the 750k number, I think that means the fight made more money PPV wise than Joshua vs. Ruiz 2. And if that's true, say goodbye to 50-50 split for a possible Fury vs. Joshua fight and hello to 60-40 split in favor of Fury.
Wan't AJ Ruiz 2 on DAZN in the US? it is hard to compare those PPV. Hearn was able to get like $40m site fee for the fight. Plus UK PPV, DAZN priced in, I would assume AJ Ruiz 2 generated more revenue. AJ take home plus Ruiz take home was more than this $50m minimum and no one has talked about that fight being a financial disaster.

This is like the recent terminator or Xmen movie that hit theatres recently, a total bomb at the box office.
Waaaaaaaay more!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ8IZ3iW_UM&t=4m43s
HAHAHAHA!! :lol: :lol:

'You know why Deontay Wilder sucks? Let me break it down for his bumboys, fanboys and internet fans that like sucking him off. AJ loses. He was so over the moon, so happy. Dude they was offering you more than $100m to fight him! You made 4-5m to fight Ortiz bruv! Are you stupid? Are you fucking stupid?!' - Dillian Whyte

'Eddie Hearn has almost single-handedly helped raise the profile of boxing in the U.S.' - Kevin Iole
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Danielk015 »

TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:43 pm
Danielk015 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:24 pm
TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:00 pm Even if we go with the 750k number, I think that means the fight made more money PPV wise than Joshua vs. Ruiz 2. And if that's true, say goodbye to 50-50 split for a possible Fury vs. Joshua fight and hello to 60-40 split in favor of Fury.
Wan't AJ Ruiz 2 on DAZN in the US? it is hard to compare those PPV. Hearn was able to get like $40m site fee for the fight. Plus UK PPV, DAZN priced in, I would assume AJ Ruiz 2 generated more revenue. AJ take home plus Ruiz take home was more than this $50m minimum and no one has talked about that fight being a financial disaster.

This is like the recent terminator or Xmen movie that hit theatres recently, a total bomb at the box office.
It's not that hard to compare considering the UK PPV for Joshua and Ruiz 2. US PPV for this fight (since its PPV) generated more money than Ruiz and Joshua 2 did. Look at what I wrote, I said PPV wise, this fight made more money.
Ahh yes. but when you then talk about a split between Fury and AJ. Shouldn't you use all revenue, not just PPV revenue? We need to see what the 'event earned' if revenue pieces are different in terms of generation. Comparing UK PPV and US PPV is disingenuous when you are then talking about leveraging those numbers for AJ vs Fury.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by TheSickness316 »

Danielk015 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:43 pm
TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:43 pm
Danielk015 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:24 pm

Wan't AJ Ruiz 2 on DAZN in the US? it is hard to compare those PPV. Hearn was able to get like $40m site fee for the fight. Plus UK PPV, DAZN priced in, I would assume AJ Ruiz 2 generated more revenue. AJ take home plus Ruiz take home was more than this $50m minimum and no one has talked about that fight being a financial disaster.

This is like the recent terminator or Xmen movie that hit theatres recently, a total bomb at the box office.
It's not that hard to compare considering the UK PPV for Joshua and Ruiz 2. US PPV for this fight (since its PPV) generated more money than Ruiz and Joshua 2 did. Look at what I wrote, I said PPV wise, this fight made more money.
Ahh yes. but when you then talk about a split between Fury and AJ. Shouldn't you use all revenue, not just PPV revenue? We need to see what the 'event earned' if revenue pieces are different in terms of generation. Comparing UK PPV and US PPV is disingenuous when you are then talking about leveraging those numbers for AJ vs Fury.
No, because look at all the talk that has been made over the last 13+ years. It's been about the numbers evolving around PPV, not ticket sales. Look at the whole Manny vs. Floyd debacle. It was all about the PPV.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Tocsin »

Who gets the site fee?
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Danielk015 »

Tocsin wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:53 pm Who gets the site fee?
The promotion. Then the promotion needs to share it with the fighters on how they have agreed upon payment. I am assuming site fee + DAZN + Gate paid for the guarantees of Ruiz. Any additional revenue like the UK ppv paid for the upside
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Danielk015 »

TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:48 pm

No, because look at all the talk that has been made over the last 13+ years. It's been about the numbers evolving around PPV, not ticket sales. Look at the whole Manny vs. Floyd debacle. It was all about the PPV.
But those PPV are apples to apples. Were we comparing Philippine PPV vs US PPV? No. Manny and Floyd were all directly linked to USA PPVs. Comparing JUST UK and USA PPV are applies and oranges. NOt only the market size, but ppv price.

SInce Manny and Floyd were USA based, so easy to compare revenue, basically one source. With gate making a small but insignificant difference.

But here, you are talking about one fighter earning a $40m site fee, DAZN revenue and UK PPV, and you just want to focus on UK PPV? So if Canelo's contract ended tomorrow and he has no recent PPV performance, Canelo should be allotted for Zero since he has no US PPV to speak of?

I am not sure why this is so difficult. Revenue is most important. Most fighters it was easy to compare as most all of it was USA based. This last AJ fight is different.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by BadlyBrowned »

I had coworkers who haven't mentioned a stint of boxing since I started working there. Fury/Wilder 2 had one guy call out to go watch the fight in Vegas, and my boss inviting people over his house after the shift was over to go watch it.

I was expecting more than a million for once. That's disappointing.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by TheSickness316 »

Danielk015 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:00 pm
TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:48 pm

No, because look at all the talk that has been made over the last 13+ years. It's been about the numbers evolving around PPV, not ticket sales. Look at the whole Manny vs. Floyd debacle. It was all about the PPV.
But those PPV are apples to apples. Were we comparing Philippine PPV vs US PPV? No. Manny and Floyd were all directly linked to USA PPVs. Comparing JUST UK and USA PPV are applies and oranges. NOt only the market size, but ppv price.

SInce Manny and Floyd were USA based, so easy to compare revenue, basically one source. With gate making a small but insignificant difference.

But here, you are talking about one fighter earning a $40m site fee, DAZN revenue and UK PPV, and you just want to focus on UK PPV? So if Canelo's contract ended tomorrow and he has no recent PPV performance, Canelo should be allotted for Zero since he has no US PPV to speak of?

I am not sure why this is so difficult. Revenue is most important. Most fighters it was easy to compare as most all of it was USA based. This last AJ fight is different.
But I can easily come back to you with, if UK PPV was priced like the US, would those PPV buys still be the same? If US PPV was priced like UK, would the PPV buys still be the same? And bringing up Saudi Arabia and the site fee, come on. You're talking about a government paying that, a government that has all the money to spend and overpaid. And they did that because they're trying to get sports and entertainment to be something there. Look at the deal they made with the WWE. Hell, they have said they'll pay 100 million to hold Conor vs. Khabib 2.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Danielk015 »

TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:09 pm

But I can easily come back to you with, if UK PPV was priced like the US, would those PPV buys still be the same? If US PPV was priced like UK, would the PPV buys still be the same? And bringing up Saudi Arabia and the site fee, come on. You're talking about a government paying that, a government that has all the money to spend and overpaid. And they did that because they're trying to get sports and entertainment to be something there. Look at the deal they made with the WWE. Hell, they have said they'll pay 100 million to hold Conor vs. Khabib 2.
I guess I will answer that by saying I believe in free market principles. If UK PPV was priced like US, the buys will go down but the revenue will stay the same. Same with US PPV> Buys would go up, but revenue stays the same. The market will have more or less buyers depending on the price. And if demand for that product is the same, the all-in revenue should stay the same no matter the price. Unless demand curve goes up or down because of public perception of the price, then we will have different all in revenue. But now, that is going into an area where we start just assuming all things.

Something is worth only what you will be able to get someone else to pay for it. Has anyone else actually received a $40m site fee from Saudi Arabia. For many fighters like Canelo, FLoyd or Manny in their primes, they probably dont need it as the loss of US ppv revenue will be made up by that site fee. But for fighters looking to maximize their earnings, their ability to earn the top dollar possible, is what the market will bear for that fight. So the guarantees for AJ and Ruiz 2 was going to be the highest in Saudi ARabia and that is an impressive number. I mean, Dazn overpays too, we all acknowledge that, but that money is being realized and earned, so that needs to be taken into consideration when talking about revenue potential and box office. that is what I have maintained all the time. what is revenue and what is box office potential.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Danielk015 »

at the end of the day, AJ - Ruiz maximized their earnings and for all intents and purposes, that was a win from a revenue standpoint. Fury - Wilder 2 is shaping up to be a box office bomb and there is red ink everywhere. That is a huge loss.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by TheSickness316 »

Danielk015 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:22 pm
TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:09 pm

But I can easily come back to you with, if UK PPV was priced like the US, would those PPV buys still be the same? If US PPV was priced like UK, would the PPV buys still be the same? And bringing up Saudi Arabia and the site fee, come on. You're talking about a government paying that, a government that has all the money to spend and overpaid. And they did that because they're trying to get sports and entertainment to be something there. Look at the deal they made with the WWE. Hell, they have said they'll pay 100 million to hold Conor vs. Khabib 2.
I guess I will answer that by saying I believe in free market principles. If UK PPV was priced like US, the buys will go down but the revenue will stay the same. Same with US PPV> Buys would go up, but revenue stays the same. The market will have more or less buyers depending on the price. And if demand for that product is the same, the all-in revenue should stay the same no matter the price. Unless demand curve goes up or down because of public perception of the price, then we will have different all in revenue. But now, that is going into an area where we start just assuming all things.

Something is worth only what you will be able to get someone else to pay for it. Has anyone else actually received a $40m site fee from Saudi Arabia. For many fighters like Canelo, FLoyd or Manny in their primes, they probably dont need it as the loss of US ppv revenue will be made up by that site fee. But for fighters looking to maximize their earnings, their ability to earn the top dollar possible, is what the market will bear for that fight. So the guarantees for AJ and Ruiz 2 was going to be the highest in Saudi ARabia and that is an impressive number. I mean, Dazn overpays too, we all acknowledge that, but that money is being realized and earned, so that needs to be taken into consideration when talking about revenue potential and box office. that is what I have maintained all the time. what is revenue and what is box office potential.
I think you're mistaking revenue for profit. Wilder vs. Fury 2 did more revenue on PPV than Joshua vs. Ruiz 2 did.
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Re: Fury-Wilder II: 800-850K PPV Buys

Post by Danielk015 »

TheSickness316 wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:37 pm

I think you're mistaking revenue for profit. Wilder vs. Fury 2 did more revenue on PPV than Joshua vs. Ruiz 2 did.
HUH? no im not. I am talking about revenue for the fight. PPV is part of the equation. You are the one that is just focusing on ppv for some reason. I am not sure why that is.

So for non ppv fights, how do you calculate revenue that hopefully will be a profit? TV fee, box office gate, maybe a small site fee. other rights. That is the same for a PPV fight but PPV is the dominating revenue earner. But at the end of the day everything is calculated.

I think AJ vs Ruiz 2 not only earned more TOTAL revenue, it earned a profit verses Fury - Wilder 2

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