Joshua just isn’t very good

[Cagiva9]

It’s been said that all Wilder has is power and reach and height but he also has great stamina. Wilder works hard, though inefficiently, yet still carries his power for the full 12. Joshua obviously has better technique but less pop and really poor stamina.

[CageyVeteran]

It’s been said that all Wilder has is power and reach and height but he also has great stamina. Wilder works hard, though inefficiently, yet still carries his power for the full 12.

And accuracy. That Artur Spizlka ko I didn't even see the punch happen live had to see the replay. And his destruction of Brazeale. In his rematch with Stiverne he did kind of hit him in the back of the head but damn that right hand is a laser. I need to watch the Fury, but I'm not in the mood for a snooze fest yet.

[yoloswaggy911]

He's a gold medal fighter, he's excellent. Such a odd thing to say. He's very good at many things and has glaring flaws in others. Those flaws can be exploited, this is nothing new for the Heavy Weight division. These humans are so large anybody can be destroyed on any night.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ruiz win the rematch.

[ObJuan13]

He's a gold medal fighter, he's excellent. Such a odd thing to say. He's very good at many things and has glaring flaws in others. Those flaws can be exploited, this is nothing new for the Heavy Weight division. These humans are so large anybody can be destroyed on any night.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ruiz win the rematch.

So now Anthony Joshua is excellent??

A bunch of low bars around here

[Tocsin]

I'd say he's neither 'excellent' nor a 'big stiff'

He's an Olympic champ and was a unified world champ with a good collection of wins.Very few in the overall picture get to those levels. He's a good fighter, but certainly has flaws. He's not a great but he's hardly Audley Harrison.

[Tocsin]

He's a gold medal fighter, he's excellent. Such a odd thing to say. He's very good at many things and has glaring flaws in others. Those flaws can be exploited, this is nothing new for the Heavy Weight division. These humans are so large anybody can be destroyed on any night.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ruiz win the rematch.

So now Anthony Joshua is excellent??

A bunch of low bars around here

On the other hand, I'd say it's just as off to say that an Olympic champ + unified world champ/ top 3 fighter is nothing more than a big stiff.

In that case, pretty much all boxers in the world are awful

[ObJuan13]

He's a gold medal fighter, he's excellent. Such a odd thing to say. He's very good at many things and has glaring flaws in others. Those flaws can be exploited, this is nothing new for the Heavy Weight division. These humans are so large anybody can be destroyed on any night.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ruiz win the rematch.

So now Anthony Joshua is excellent??

A bunch of low bars around here

On the other hand, I'd say it's just as off to say that an Olympic champ + unified world champ/ top 3 fighter is nothing more than a big stiff.

In that case, pretty much all boxers in the world are awful

All boxers in the world don’t fight at HW and share the luxury of outweighing their opponents by as much as some of these super HWs do... so you can feel how you want, but AJ is absolutely a big stiff and far from excellent...

he won his title vs Charles Martin who is a bigger bum than he is and the “decent” fighters he defended against were much smaller than him, the larger ones he defended against (brazealle) suck...

So defend him all you want but anyone who watched him lose the way he lost to Ruiz and comes out of it thinking he’s good is gonna have to come up with better arguments than titles and gold medals as if a bunch of lifelong boxing fans don’t know that such awards can amount to absolute dog shit.

[Tocsin]

In terms of weight, Joshua hasn't actually been all that much heavier than most of his opponents--only twice has he had more than a 12 pound advantage, which isn't that much when you get that high in pounds. I mean you passionately went on about how people are trying to 'take away' (whatever that means) from Wilder by not agreeing with you that he's the exact same size as Usyk, yet the weight difference between them has generally been at least 12 pounds if not more. I don't think AJ reached the levels he did simply being a big guy, and the vast majority of fighters around his size never accomplish what he has--that's easy to see.

He won his IBF title vs a weak champ, true, but he also has a number of respectable wins, such as beating Whyte, Povetkin, Parker (who beat Ruiz), and Wlad. There are some decent second-tier contenders in there too. I don't believe there was a credible publication or 'expert' who had AJ outside the top 3 in the world, and if anyone was the consensus #1 in he division it was him. This was after winning the highest prize in amateur boxing (ya Olympic gold sucks lol!) as well as world championships silver, and in the amateurs he wasn't merely bowling guys over with size and power---that type of thing really doesn't happen these days in the ams.

He certainly has flaws and some of them have been apparent for a while, we'd seen him in adversity before after all, but at the same time he has some serious strengths that took him a long way. He's got very good power, has sound punch technique and pretty much a full punch repertoire, and throws some of the best combos at HW. He has reached a level that very very few do, and while some people may have low bars for what constitutes excellence, your bar is just as off the other way---going by your standards almost everyone sucks.

Boxing fans are prone to extremes, and it's especially the case with high profiled fighters. Guys like AJ and GGG had a lot of praise bestowed upon them, and certainly some of this was too lofty, but as soon as they took losses we start hearing about them being nothing more than stiffs, frauds, mediocre, etc. These are guys who were Olympic/world amateur champs and then unified champs/elite world level pros.

Maybe, just maybe, fighters can be good, even very good, but still clearly flawed and not at a level where they qualify as excellent, or one of the best ever, etc. If only it were so easy that any stiff could accomplish as much as AJ has, maybe then we could've all been contenders...

[ObJuan13]

He’s not very good, if you disagree, God bless you who cares... but to roll out the “if he’s not good then who is” bullshit is dumb... because I can name names, a lot of them...

He probably falls outside of what? The top 40 of any respectable p4p list talent and skill wise...

So again, if that constitutes very good to you then God bless... It sure as hell doesn’t to me. Off the top of my head with absolutely no effort I can name 20 guys who are better than he is, a little memory refreshing and I can name 20 more

But how dare I disrespect him and the sport with my extremism

The guy just got outclassed by Andy Ruiz... not clipped, not one shot KO’d... outclassed

[Tocsin]

I think he's good and I think he's done enough to prove that--his accomplishments are something that very few match, even if they are his size or bigger. He's not great and of course has flaws, like he showed vs Ruiz and Wlad, but he's hardly just a stiff. As for P4P rankings, HWs tend not to get rated high in those and I think their size often makes it tougher for them to look as good on the eye as smaller guys do. I would say that Joshua is still a world class fighter though, and that he was on the stronger side of the world champs across the divisions. If he is so bad that he should be described in negative terms, as a stiff,, I can't see how more than a tiny numbers of fighter in the world are actually on the positive side of things. To me your bar is just as misplaced as the ones you criticize.

Thanks for God's blesses, though I don't know where the 'how dare you' stuff comes from-- I wasn't remotely offended by anything you posted and I mean this is a forum to exchange opinions

[ObJuan13]

I think he's good and I think he's done enough to prove that--his accomplishments are something that very few match, even if they are his size or bigger. He's not great and of course has flaws, like he showed vs Ruiz and Wlad, but he's hardly just a stiff. As for P4P rankings, HWs tend not to get rated high in those and I think their size often makes it tougher for them to look as good on the eye as smaller guys do. I would say that Joshua is still a world class fighter though, and that he was on the stronger side of the world champs across the divisions. If he is so bad that he should be described in negative terms, as a stiff,, I can't see how more than a tiny numbers of fighter in the world are actually on the positive side of things. To me your bar is just as misplaced as the ones you criticize.

Thanks for God's blesses, though I don't know where the 'how dare you' stuff comes from-- I wasn't remotely offended by anything you posted and I mean this is a forum to exchange opinions

You know where the how dare you stuff comes from, you’re just trying to argue for arguments sake... you made it sound like I’m making some extreme judgement of the guy because I said he’s not very good. Fine, we’re past that now.

And why shouldn’t I use negative terms to describe his ability as a fighter?? If he’s stiff he’s a stiff, which he clearly is. So as I said you can disagree, no biggie... whether he’s a fan favorite or otherwise, he’s a stiff and isn’t very good the way I see it.

And yes only a tiny number of fighters in the world are very good, that’s what it’s like when you grade world class fighters against other world class fighters... seems obvious enough

[Tocsin]

So basically someone called AJ excellent and you responded to him that people on this forum are putting the bar too low and overrating AJ. I then commented to you that I think you're putting it too high--AJ isn't excellent but he's not a stiff. What's the issue? You seem to get really sensitive when people express that they disagree with you, like when you made the Wilder-Usyk size thing into some injustice of people 'taking away' from Wilder, simply if they disagreed with your position that those two are the exact same size.

We'll just have to disagree. I don't see at all how Joshua is close to being bad enough to be considered as a stiff. He's not excellent or amazing or a great, but I think he's good--a world class boxer as an amateur and pro who is better than most champs out there.

[ObJuan13]

So basically someone called AJ excellent and you responded to him that people on this forum are putting the bar too low and overrating AJ. I then commented to you that I think you're putting it too high--AJ isn't excellent but he's not a stiff. What's the issue? You seem to get really sensitive when people express that they disagree with you, like when you made the Wilder-Usyk size thing into some injustice of people 'taking away' from Wilder, simply if they disagreed with your position that those two are the exact same size.

We'll just have to disagree. I don't see at all how Joshua is close to being bad enough to be considered as a stiff. He's not excellent or amazing or a great, but I think he's good--a world class boxer as an amateur and pro who is better than most champs out there.

You’re the sensitive one. We obviously have some sort of personality clash thing going on, all this thread was about is AJ not being very good. You disagree, I got it.

[Tocsin]

I posted a response that was just like the one you posted to yolo--you think his bar is too low, I think yours is too high. Perfectly relevant to the topic and only 2 sentences. You then responded with some paragraphs so I addressed your points and explained my position in more detail. Don't really see why you'd take any of this as an attack or me just trying to stir sh!t

[ObJuan13]

I posted a response that was just like the one you posted to yolo--you think his bar is too low, I think yours is too high. Perfectly relevant to the topic and only 2 sentences. You then responded with some paragraphs so I addressed your points and explained my position in more detail. Don't really see why you'd take any of this as an attack or me just trying to stir sh!t

Listen man, if you feel like I’m coming at you then sorry. You introduced all of this “You’re sensitive and in other threads your behavior is like this and like that stuff”, so I made quick remarks to let you know it didn’t slip past me.

I don’t really wanna go back and forth

[Hillsinitialrebirth]

Time Will tell. I still think AJ is a good fighter, but he's definitely flawed, like I've pointed out many times before. I said this before he lost to Ruiz.

Let's see if be can beat Ruiz in a rematch, and let's see how he does against Wilder and Fury? Currently, I think he loses two out of 3 in those fights, but we'll see.

[soonermark890]

Time Will tell. I still think AJ is a good fighter, but he's definitely flawed, like I've pointed out many times before. I said this before he lost to Ruiz.

Let's see if be can beat Ruiz in a rematch, and let's see how he does against Wilder and Fury? Currently, I think he loses two out of 3 in those fights, but we'll see.

I think he loses all three but hey maybe he gets lucky and catches ruiz