Roy Jones Jr. Says He Was Better Than Mayweather….and Roy's

[Primetyme199]

http://www.thesweetscience.com/feature- ... mayweather

BY FRANK LOTIERZO

Undefeated records, especially when it comes to boxing, are very overvalued. If a boxer is a star, he can pretty much pick and choose whom he fights. With four sanctioning bodies (WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO) it's easy to find a limited opponent to fight with a title on the line and pass it off as a legitimate championship bout and enough fans will buy it, literally and figuratively.

Until Floyd Mayweather 50-0 (27) retired, Rocky Marciano was the most famous boxer to retire undefeated at 49-0 (43). When a Marciano fan tried to make the case Rocky was greater than Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali, he would use his undefeated record as being the clincher to settle the debate in his favor. My retort to that has always been that if Louis or Ali fought every opponent Marciano did on the night he fought them, they also would've gone 49-0 with the only difference being Louis probably wins more by KO than Rocky's 43 and Ali most likely doesn't score 43 knockouts....but that's it.

Then Floyd Mayweather goes 50-0 and his defenders use his unblemished record as the de facto tie-breaker over history’s past great pound for pound fighters. However, the difference between Marciano and Mayweather is that Rocky fought everybody during a pedestrian era and Floyd picked his spots and retired and came back a few times during a stout era while conveniently avoiding some of the bigger threats to him when both were at their prime. Instead of picking apart Mayweather's record, which isn't hard to do, it's more authentic to compare him to another pound for pound great from his era or slightly before it....Roy Jones.

Jones recently said: “Floyd Mayweather was TBE at making money, but look at his highlights and look at mine. You can’t pretend it’s the same. You can’t pretend there’s ever been anyone come close to doing what I did. Nobody you could name could touch me - and I’m talking about nobody who’s around now, nobody who was around in my prime, and nobody who was around any time you can mention outta your mouth."

I agree with Roy. Floyd picked his opponents better, but as a fighter Roy was superior to Mayweather in every category with the exception that Floyd had a better chin. Between 1989 and 2003, Roy was easily one of the most physically skilled and gifted fighters ever. He was the perfect blend of athleticism, speed and power. Roy had blinding hand speed, could fight in retreat, counter punching, or take the initiative and explode offensively. And what a terrific body puncher he was! From a physical skill-set, Jones was faster than Mayweather, had a better offensive repertoire, punched harder with both hands, was a better body puncher and finisher and, yes, because of his foot speed he was harder to hit. Remember, much of Mayweather's stellar defense started with his unwillingness to all-out engage. Fighters who seek to win by knockout accept they're going to get hit and take chances fighting in the danger zone and end up getting nicked more. Jones did that much more than Mayweather and when his reflexes dulled he started to get hit more.

The only category where Mayweather gets the check in his column is in punch resistance, but even that may not be completely fair or accurate as Roy's chin was never an issue until he went up to heavyweight and then back down to light heavyweight. (There aren't many examples of guys going down from heavyweight to light heavyweight other than Chris Byrd who beat many notables during his heavyweight title reign and then had a revelation after losing to Alexander Povetkin and figured if he went down to light heavyweight he'd be better off. Seven months after fighting Povetkin at 211.75 he fought fringe contender Shaun George 16-2-2, weighing 174, and it was a disaster. Byrd looked drained and was stopped in the ninth round.) Fighters who go up a lot in weight are usually unsuccessful when they try to go back down. I believe dropping 25 pounds after beating Ruiz took something out of Roy Jones that he never got back. A case can be made that Jones never looked better than when he beat Ruiz and never looked special again, not even one time, after that.

Roy won world titles at middleweight, super middleweight, light heavyweight and in 2003 in his 49th fight made history as the first middleweight in 100 years to capture the heavyweight title. In his first 50 bouts, Jones compiled a record of 49-1 (38). The loss was by disqualification against Montell Griffin for hitting him while he was down per referee Tony Perez. When they met in a rematch, Jones stopped Griffin in the first round. In Floyd's 50 bouts there's a stronger argument he was bettered by Jose Luis Castillo the first time they fought than there is that that Jones was beaten by Griffin, based on what took place in the ring opposed to some shady judging. Like Jones versus Griffin, Mayweather won his rematch with Castillo, but just not as convincingly.

Some people, myself included, have suggested that Mayweather's opposition when he fought the biggest names on his record is a little spotty. This is something that applies to Jones as well. The difference is that Jones dominated Bernard Hopkins, a certifiable all-time great, when Hopkins was near his peak physically. (Hopkins entered the fight 22-1, with the loss coming in his pro debut. Jones outpointed him by a pronounced margin, and Hopkins then went undefeated over the next 12 years.)

Roy fought James Toney a year and a half after he beat Hopkins. Toney entered their fight undefeated at 44-0-2. Jones dropped Toney in the third round and dominated him even more thoroughly than he did Hopkins. Toney happens to be one of the most complete fighters circa 1990-2003. He beat outstanding fighters in between middleweight and heavyweight. Like Hopkins, Toney is a certifiable Hall of Famer. Collectively Hopkins and Toney entered their fights with Jones 66-1-2, and it's doubtful that combined they won six of the 24 rounds. And defeating a guy like Ruiz who was 50 pounds bigger than any of his previous opponents far exceeds any pound for pound accomplishment of Mayweather.

In my opinion, Jones knocking out Virgil Hill with a single body shot and dominating Hopkins, Toney and Ruiz the way he did gives him a stronger claim than Mayweather to being "TBE.” Floyd has nothing on his record to compare to that, no way, no how. In order to make the case for Mayweather all you can say is he never lost, but there's no Hopkins, Toney or Ruiz-like feat on Floyd's resume. Had Jones retired after beating Ruiz, he would've had a legitimate case to be considered among the five greatest pound-for-pound boxers/fighters in history. This is a claim which Mayweather couldn't even make jokingly.

And to those who say Jones ducked light heavyweight Dariusz Michalczewski because he feared him, wake up and smell the coffee. Michalczewski wouldn't fight outside Germany or Poland. After getting hosed out of a gold medal at the 1988 Olympics in Seoul, Roy feared leaving the United States because he didn't trust the foreign judges. Mayweather won't even leave the MGM Grand in his hometown of Las Vegas.

At their respective bests, Roy Jones took more risks and beat greater fighters. He was a once in a lifetime talent like Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard and I just can't say that about Floyd Mayweather.

Jones said.....

“The great thing today is it don’t matter what anyone says or what anyone writes, you can type 'sickest boxing highlights' into YouTube or Google and you see Roy Jones Junior doing his thing. Nobody can change your mind after you see that. That is pound-for-pound! I did what I did – it happened – it is a fact….You can watch me side-by-side with anyone and it’s not close."

I don't know about all of that, but side-by-side the debate between Jones and Mayweather goes to Jones. The case for Mayweather rests on him being undefeated, but many other pound for pound greats would've blazed through his opposition and gone undefeated too. That cannot be said about Roy Jones, because we know there are some all-timers who wouldn't beat Hopkins and Toney. Not to mention the select few light heavyweight champs who might beat the John Ruiz that Jones fought.

Sadly Roy fought on too long past his prime and, as he once proclaimed, many forgot. But Roy's conclusion that he was a greater fighter than Mayweather is correct.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

[gilgamesh]

I hate it that anybody even publishes these kinds of articles.

This always just translates to me as "WAAAAAAHHHHH people praise this guy more than me....WAHHHHHHHH!"

[the13r]

As far as entertainment value RJJr is right imo...

[ObJuan13]

Certainly debatable

[jeff_lacy_ko]

Roy humiliated james toney in their primes. Floyd humiliated corrales.

Floyd fought better fighters though. Roys collapse will be held against him too

[NoPropaganda 253]

Roy humiliated james toney in their primes. Floyd humiliated corrales.

Floyd fought better fighters though. Roys collapse will be held against him too

Prime Corrales couldn't hold Prime Toney's jock strap, Jeff, but I hear ya. Floyd had the better career and Roy's peak was higher imo.

[KiNg_DaDdY_2o9]

No.

[Hillsinitialrebirth]

Roy was the most physically gifted fighter of all time. At the height of his powers, you'd probably have to take him over anybody historically in and around his best weight classes.

But Floyd, hands down, had a FAR better career than him. And is the best fighter of this era. And I'd even put Manny ahead of RJJ when it comes to that. And B-Hop had a FAR better career than RJJ, even though peak for peak, RJJ is well above B-Hop in ability.

[Freakzilla]

Roy humiliated james toney in their primes. Floyd humiliated corrales.

Floyd fought better fighters though. Roys collapse will be held against him too

Prime Corrales couldn't hold Prime Toney's jock strap, Jeff, but I hear ya. Floyd had the better career and Roy's peak was higher imo.

I totally agree with this.

[Pangloss]

Jones' skill set wasn't built for old age, but the skill set he did have was highly tuned and made him the phenom he was.

Hopkins was a nice luxury sedan that got excellent care, top of the line gasoline, and mostly looked for the big spaces in traffic rather to race ahead rather than trying to pass the fastest car, almost never drove too hard, and tried to block people in driving faster than he could handle.

Mayweather was a better tuned, sportier coupe version of that on a wider highway with regular rest stops for when traffic got too hectic, and an expert mechanic to wash the impurities out of his oil filter from the overly rich gas he put in his tank, particularly as the mileage started getting high.

Pacquiao was a suped up AWD rally car that ran full bore at all times using a rocket fuel modified engine.

Jones was a top of the line Bugatti that didn't always floor it, was careless with oil changes, got caught by some post-production induced emissions standards, and where the owner tailgated even when they moved to a place where it rained every day and the roads were always slick.

[Presteezh]

Jones' skill set wasn't built for old age, but the skill set he did have was highly tuned and made him the phenom he was.

Hopkins was a nice luxury sedan that got excellent care, top of the line gasoline, and mostly looked for the big spaces in traffic rather to race ahead rather than trying to pass the fastest car, almost never drove too hard, and tried to block people in driving faster than he could handle.

Mayweather was a better tuned, sportier coupe version of that on a wider highway with regular rest stops for when traffic got too hectic, and an expert mechanic to wash the impurities out of his oil filter from the overly rich gas he put in his tank, particularly as the mileage started getting high.

Pacquiao was a suped up AWD rally car that ran full bore at all times using a rocket fuel modified engine.

Jones was a top of the line Bugatti that didn't always floor it, was careless with oil changes, got caught by some post-production induced emissions standards, and where the owner tailgated even when they moved to a place where it rained every day and the roads were always slick.

Lol I love it Pangloss. this should be a published article

[NoPropaganda 253]

Jones' skill set wasn't built for old age, but the skill set he did have was highly tuned and made him the phenom he was.

Hopkins was a nice luxury sedan that got excellent care, top of the line gasoline, and mostly looked for the big spaces in traffic rather to race ahead rather than trying to pass the fastest car, almost never drove too hard, and tried to block people in driving faster than he could handle.

Mayweather was a better tuned, sportier coupe version of that on a wider highway with regular rest stops for when traffic got too hectic, and an expert mechanic to wash the impurities out of his oil filter from the overly rich gas he put in his tank, particularly as the mileage started getting high.

Pacquiao was a suped up AWD rally car that ran full bore at all times using a rocket fuel modified engine.

Jones was a top of the line Bugatti that didn't always floor it, was careless with oil changes, got caught by some post-production induced emissions standards, and where the owner tailgated even when they moved to a place where it rained every day and the roads were always slick.

Lol I love it Pangloss. this should be a published article

[Pangloss]

Thanks guys. I see drunk-typing typos that will annoy me now though LOL

[KiNg_DaDdY_2o9]

Pretty accurate.

RJJ. Should be the GOAT. The stuff of legends. Mt. Rushmore. Wasted career. All-time great talent, pitiful resume.

[Just a guy]

This just brings back the arguments about the paradox that was Jones, Jr.

Watching him fight, it was hard not to see the 'wow' factor in his speed and how he put some of his opponents to sleep. It was also hard to see him doing that against guys that you knew before the bell rang had absolutely zero chance. It was hard for the purist to watch him do everything that you are not supposed to do and be able to get away with it because of his incredible physical gifts. Even when it was hard, though, he was incredibly fun to watch.

He went to heavyweight, and I don't know if that is just an excuse that his inability to take a solid punch came from his losing of the weight he had gained to go and get that belt - but I do know that discussions were on the table for him to be able to fight Lennox Lewis. Had he fought Lennox and gotten knocked out, nobody would have blamed him. Nobody would have questioned his chin had he retired AFTER Lennox knocked him out or he had a farewell fight (but he wouldn't have - he would have kept going ala Holyfield).

It was hard for Jones, Jr. fans to watch the ridiculously quick decline of a guy that was largely untouchable - but, as was said, his style was not built for longevity. It was hard to know if he really did avoid fights or if the terms offered to him were so silly that he financially didn't consider them - so that knock on Floyd was a bit tough to swallow. The decline just emboldened many of Roy's critics... some of those aforementioned purists who took a lot of pleasure out of seeing Tarver catch him and the subsequent beatdown from Johnson. It would have been good to know, though, if an older and wiser B-Hop would have offered a different fight in the rematch. It would have been good to know if Tarver in a rematch prior to the move to heavyweight would have tapped Roy's chin. It would have been nice to know if Calzaghe would have been obliterated or if his speed would have actually been close enough to Roy's to make that a contest.

Where I completely agree with Roy - watch highlights of Roy versus highlights of Floyd, and the things that Roy could do were incredible. However, how can one argue that fighters were not the same against Floyd as against most others? How can one argue that Floyd's success spanned a longer time frame? But, at the same time, how can one argue that the difference in talent between Roy and everybody else wasn't wider than Floyd and everybody else during their respective peaks?

How do you judge a career? Look at Roy and compare him to almost any other fighter, and what you come up with probably gives you a good idea of what you think is important and what is not.

[Peat56]

Comparing RJ to Mayweather is very hard, and ultimately highly subjective. We don't have much to base our ideas and assumptions on. They have no common opponents, and they didn't fight in the same divisions. Comparing fighters in the same division and era who never fought can be hard enough. RJ and Floyd are very far apart in so many ways.

Longevity in a career, while very admirable, is not a sole determinant of greatness. RJ certainly did not have longevity. He was done at the top level at an age when so many fighters had years of good efforts left in them. He just faded kind of fast one day. I hope he is done for good now (please tell me he is!)

If we look at RJ on his best night and imagine that fighter against Floyd, making them the same weight, then you have a very interesting fight. Its a fight I think RJ wins. But its kind of like wondering if Ricardo Lopez could have beaten Julian Jackson. They are just so removed from one an other.

Floyd's legacy, love him or hate him, is unmatched in sports history. Call it notoriety, call it undeserved or deserved. But its a legacy that defies comparison to anyone in boxing. But were there better fighter than Floyd. Of course. Not necessarily a great number of them, but RJ might have been one.

[theVAMP]

skimmed through the article... the guy that wrote it doesnt know shit about boxing.

[jeff_lacy_ko]

Roy humiliated james toney in their primes. Floyd humiliated corrales.

Floyd fought better fighters though. Roys collapse will be held against him too

Prime Corrales couldn't hold Prime Toney's jock strap, Jeff, but I hear ya. Floyd had the better career and Roy's peak was higher imo.

That was my point. Roy at his peak was better than floyd but floyd had a better reusme.

The beat skilled pure boxer of the past 20 years is james toney. Best athlete is jones. Best defensive fighter is floyd. Best offensive pacman. Smartest hopkins.

[Peat56]

[/quote]The beat skilled pure boxer of the past 20 years is james toney. Best athlete is jones. Best defensive fighter is floyd. Best offensive pacman. Smartest hopkins.[/quote]

That pretty much summarizes my view of this.

[KiNg_DaDdY_2o9]

Hopkins wasn't a smarter fighter than Floyd.

Floyd is thinking a 100% of the time in there. Always 2 steps ahead of his opponent. The epitome of a ring general. Hopkins mailed it in a handful of a times.

[jeff_lacy_ko]

Hopkins wasn't a smarter fighter than Floyd.

Floyd is thinking a 100% of the time in there. Always 2 steps ahead of his opponent. The epitome of a ring general. Hopkins mailed it in a handful of a times.

I disagree based on hops success against good to great fighters in his 40s.

[chef97]

Jones' skill set wasn't built for old age, but the skill set he did have was highly tuned and made him the phenom he was.

Hopkins was a nice luxury sedan that got excellent care, top of the line gasoline, and mostly looked for the big spaces in traffic rather to race ahead rather than trying to pass the fastest car, almost never drove too hard, and tried to block people in driving faster than he could handle.

Mayweather was a better tuned, sportier coupe version of that on a wider highway with regular rest stops for when traffic got too hectic, and an expert mechanic to wash the impurities out of his oil filter from the overly rich gas he put in his tank, particularly as the mileage started getting high.

Pacquiao was a suped up AWD rally car that ran full bore at all times using a rocket fuel modified engine.

Jones was a top of the line Bugatti that didn't always floor it, was careless with oil changes, got caught by some post-production induced emissions standards, and where the owner tailgated even when they moved to a place where it rained every day and the roads were always slick.

HR of a post right here....

[KiNg_DaDdY_2o9]

What does that have to do with being the smarter fighter?

Ask any trainer worth his salt who is the smarter fighter, and if he were training a fighter from the ground up, who would he teach his fighter to emulate, Hopkins or Floyd, pretty sure the answer would be Floyd.

[jeff_lacy_ko]

Floyd is a better athlete than bernard and bernard got a lot out of himself due to ring intelligence.

Most would emulate bernard. The shoulder roll isnt for most fighters .

[chef97]

The all time greatest cherry picker's career as a fighter is overshadowed by prime RJJ who took more risks, had more power in either hand and was in way more exciting fights....