Henry Armstrong

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KSTAT124
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Henry Armstrong

Post by KSTAT124 »

I'm going to expand on this later today but I wanted to get a brief summary of Armstrong' career posted for jskhosa before I have to leave for work.


Henry Armstrong, born Henry Melody Jackson in 1912, fought professionally from 1931 (when he turned pro as Melody Jackson) until 1945. He fought at least 180 times going either 151-21-9 with 101 KOs (as per his IBHOF bio), 152-21-8 with 100 KOs (as per the 1986-87 Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia) or 149-21-10 with 101 KOs (as per BoxRec).

He is famous for having held the world featherweight, welterweight, and lightweight titles simultaneously. He won the California-Mexico version of the world featherweight title on August 4, 1936 by outpointing future Hall of Famer Baby Arizmendi (they fought 5 times over the years with Arizmendi winning the first 2 and Armstrong the last 3) and gained full recognition as world featherweight champion on October 29, 1937 when he knocked out Petey Sarron, the NBA champ, winning recognition by the NYSAC as well.

The Sarron bout was Armstrong's last as a featherweight as he concentrated on winning titls as a lightweight and as a welterweight. His shot at world welterweight champion Barney Ross (another future Hall of Famer) came first and he wrested the title via a 15-round, unanimous decision on May 31, 1938. In his very next bout, on August 17, 1938 he annexed the world lightweight title from future Hall of Famer Lou Ambers by winning a 15-round, split decision.

He lost the lightweight title back to Ambers in 1939 (after defending it successfully once) but held the welterweight title until 1940 when he lost it to future Hall of Famer Fritzie Zivic. Armstrong had defended the welterweight title 18 times before finally losing it.

More to follow.
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Post by jskhosa »

WOW :shock: holding belts at three different weight classes and it's interesting how back in the day fighters fought each other 4-5 times. That is very rare now a days. Thanks KSTAT will be interested to read more after you come back from work
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Post by fightfanatic1 »

this is easily one of my favorite old time fighters. Not just the 3 weights but the 4th one that almost was. I don't know enough to match KSTAT's boxing genius but I love reading his wisdom on this site.
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Post by KSTAT124 »

I could go on and on about Armstrong but I'll simply list how he did against fellow champions and title claimants and how he did against fellow Hall of Famers.


"Homicide Hank" went 21-7-2 versus fellow world champions and world title claimants:

Baby Arizmendi (2-time holder of the California version of the world featherweight title once in conjunction with Mexico; one-time holder of the NYSAC world featherweight title).....3-2 (including a 1-1 record in Calif.-Mexico world featherweight title bouts and 1-0 in world welterweight title bouts)

Juan Zurita (future NBA world lightweight champion).....2-0

Mike Belloise (NYSAC world featherweight champion).....3-0 (includes succesful defense of Calif.-Mexico version; Belloise was the NYSAC world champ at the time but the NYSAC dd not recognize the bout as being a title bout because of its scheduled 10-round length; NYSAC only recognized world title bouts scheduled for 15 rounds)

Frankie Klick (former world junior lightweight champion- PA version).....1-0

Benny Bass (former NBA- and PA- world featherweight champion; former NYSAC world junior lightweight champion).....1-0

Petey Sarron (reigning NBA world featherweight champion).....1-0 (by beating Sarron, Armstrong, still recognized by California and Mexico as the world champ, gained recognition by the NBA and by the NYSAC- thus unifying the world featherweight title)

Chalky Wright (future NYSAC and MD world featherweight champion).....1-0

Barney Ross (former world lightweight champion; former world junior welterweight champion; reigning two-time world welterweight champion).....1-0

Lou Ambers (reigning world lightweight champion; former world lightweight champion).....1-1 (Ambers regained the title in their rematch)

Ceferino Garcia (future and reigning NYSAC world middleweight champion).....1-0-1 (Armstrong successfully defended the welterwight title against Garcia the first time they fought; their second meeting, recognized by California as being for the world middleweight title, ended in a draw- although Garcia was recognized by the NYSAC, the bout wasn't, again because of its scheduled 10-round length.)

Lew Jenkins (reigning and former world lightweight champion).....2-0 (the first time they met, both were reigning world champions- Jenkins at 135, Armstrong at 147, but fought a non-title bout; neither was still a world champ by the time of their second meeting)

Fritzie Zivic (future, reigning, and former world welterweight champion).....1-2 (Armstrong lost the world welterweight title to Zivic by decision and was stopped in 12 when he tried to regain it in their rematch; Armstrong did outpoint Zivic after Zivic had lost the title to Freddie "Red" Cochrane)

Leo Rodak (former MD and NBA world lightweight champion).....1-0

Tippy Larkin (future world junior welterweight champon).....1-0

Beau Jack (reigning NYSAC world lightweight champion).....0-1 (non-title bout)

Sammy Angott (former NBA world and universally recognized world lightweight champion; future NBA world lightweight champion)....1-0

Sugar Ray Robinson (future world welterweight champion; future PA world middleweight champion; future five-time world middleweight champion).....0-1

Slugger White (former MD world lightweight champion).....0-0-1


Armstrong, also known at times as "Hurricane Hank", went 16-7-1 versus fellow Hall of Famers:

Baby Arizmendi (IBHOF, WBHF).....3-2

Juan Zurita (WBHF).....2-0

Benny Bass (IBHOF).....1-0

Chalky Wright (IBHOF, WBHF).....1-0

Barney Ross (IBHOF, WBHF).....1-0

Lou Ambers (IBHOF, WBHF).....1-1

Ceferino Garcia (WBHF).....1-0-1

Pedro Montanez (IBHOF).....1-0

Lew Jenkins (IBHOF, WBHF).....2-0

Fritzie Zivic (IBHOF, WBHF).....1-2

Tippy Larkin (WBHF).....1-0

Beau Jack (IBHOF, WBHF).....0-1

Sammy Angott (IBHOF, WBHF).....1-0

Sugar Ray Robinson (IBHOF, WBHF).....0-1

(The HOF totals could change if either or both Halls elect Sarron, Davey Day, and/or Willie Joyce. Besides going 1-0 vs. Sarron, Armstrong was 1-0 vs. Day, and 2-2 vs. Joyce.)
Last edited by KSTAT124 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jskhosa »

Interseting, I had no idea he lost to Sugar Ray Robinson. 16-7 against future hall of famers isn't too shabby either because if you fight over 200 times you are bound to lose some...He has a very impressive resume and in your opinion where does he stack up against the other All Time Greats?
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Post by KSTAT124 »

jskhosa wrote:Interseting, I had no idea he lost to Sugar Ray Robinson. 16-7 against future hall of famers isn't too shabby either because if you fight over 200 times you are bound to lose some...He has a very impressive resume and in your opinion where does he stack up against the other All Time Greats?
Number 2 all-time behind Robinson
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Post by jskhosa »

Number 2 fighter of all time says it all about the man. Looking at his resume he beat so many impressive fighters but lost to SRR...If he beat SRR do you believe he'd be P4P GOAT? Similar to like Ali/Frazier what if Frazier won the 3rd fight. I heard on ESPNClassic last week SRR knocked someone out going backwards with a JAB..WOW
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Post by KSTAT124 »

jskhosa wrote:Number 2 fighter of all time says it all about the man. Looking at his resume he beat so many impressive fighters but lost to SRR...If he beat SRR do you believe he'd be P4P GOAT? Similar to like Ali/Frazier what if Frazier won the 3rd fight. I heard on ESPNClassic last week SRR knocked someone out going backwards with a JAB..WOW
He wasn't going to beat Robinson. He was a bit past his prime but still highly competitive. Coming into his bout with Robinson, Armstrong had won 7 in a row since losing to future Hall of Famer Beau Jack and would win 11 in a row after being outpointed by Robinson. Sugar Ray was on the way up but already had been demonstrating his greatness against great fighters. Robinson was in just his 3rd year as a pro yet his win over Armstrong was his 9th over future Hall Of Famers. By that time, he was already 2-0 vs. Angott, 2-0 vs. Servo, 2-0 vs. Zivic, and 2-1 vs. LaMotta.

Armstrong was quoted as saying that even on his best day, he couldn't have beaten Robinson. That's how good Sugar Ray was!
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Post by jskhosa »

KSTAT, Henry Armstrong vs SRL at WW who wins and why
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Post by KSTAT124 »

jskhosa wrote:KSTAT, Henry Armstrong vs SRL at WW who wins and why
Interesting question- while I'd rate Armstrong higher than Leonard overall, as a welterweight, I'd rate him slightly behind Leonard. The Leonard who rallied to beat Hearns in their first bout would probably prevail over any welterweight except Sugar Ray Robinson. Would Leonard win every time he and Armstrong fought if they had a multi-fight series? No, but he'd win most of the time. Armstrong had a tremendous will to win and, if he didn't get his opponents out early, he simply wore them down. Leonard's guts and determination coupled with his speed, skills, and power would allow him to overcome Armstrong's attack.....on most nights.
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Post by jskhosa »

About time you reply jk thanks for the response. Yeah, I really want to see some of Armstrongs fights. SRL was such a beast and I'm guessing you'd pick Hearns over Armstrong as well?
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Post by KSTAT124 »

jskhosa wrote:About time you reply jk thanks for the response. Yeah, I really want to see some of Armstrongs fights. SRL was such a beast and I'm guessing you'd pick Hearns over Armstrong as well?
Unless, in their first fight Hearns caught him like he caught Duran, I could see them fighting a series of bouts and it being closer than a series between Leonard and Armstrong. Armstrong was only stopped twice in 180 or so (180 as per BoxRec; 181 as per the IBHOF) fights- by Al Iovino in his professional debut and by Fritzie Zivic in their second bout (Armstrong won their 3rd). A long as they fought as welterweights, Armstrong would not make it easy.
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Post by jskhosa »

If it's not too much to ask can you give me your top 10 all time WW list?
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Post by KSTAT124 »

jskhosa wrote:If it's not too much to ask can you give me your top 10 all time WW list?
I haven't thought about that in some time. Sugar Ray Robinson's #1 with Sugar Ray Leonard #2. I'll have to think about the order of the others but Armstrong, Hearns, Ross, McLarnin, Griffith, and Napoles would be definitely be included. Mickey Walker, Kid Gavilan, Barbados Joe Walcott, Jack Britton, Ted "Kid" Lewis, and Luis Rodriguez would be among the others I'd consider. Trinidad, Whitaker, Mosley, and De La Hoya also have to be considered, at least for the top 20.

I also rate Robinson #1 as a middleweight and I have Walker in my middleweight top ten as well.
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Post by USMILMAN »

KSTAT -

Do you rank Armstrong in the top ten of multiple divisions? I was under the impression he was more impressive as a lightweight.

Now I completely agree that Robinson is the greatest boxer in history. But I rank Armstrong higher P4P because of what he accomplished, all at the same time.
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Post by KSTAT124 »

USMILMAN wrote:KSTAT -

Do you rank Armstrong in the top ten of multiple divisions? I was under the impression he was more impressive as a lightweight.

Now I completely agree that Robinson is the greatest boxer in history. But I rank Armstrong higher P4P because of what he accomplished, all at the same time.
It was only technically at the same time. Even though he had given up the featherweight title to campaign for the lightweight and welterweight championships, he was still officially recognized as the champion at 126 when he won his titles at 147 and 135. He was, for a time, recognized by Ring Magazine as the greatest featherweight of all-time.

The bulk of Armstrong's title bouts were with the welterweight title on the line. He did, however, weigh in at or under the lightweight limit for many of his earlier welterweight title defenses.

He was only involved in three lightweight title bouts, winning the title from Lou Ambers in his fight after annexing the welterweight title from Barney Ross, successfully defending the title against Lew Feldman in a bout in which the welterweight championship was also on the line, and losing the title back to Ambers.

Overall, Armstrong was 24-4 in world title bouts: 4-1 in featherweight title bouts (including a 3-1 record in bouts for the California-Mexico version of the world title), 2-1 in world lightweight title bouts, and 19-2 in world welterweight title bouts. The 2-1 and 19-2 records each include the bout against Feldman in which both championships were being defended.
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Post by USMILMAN »

KSTAT124 wrote:
USMILMAN wrote:KSTAT -

Do you rank Armstrong in the top ten of multiple divisions? I was under the impression he was more impressive as a lightweight.

Now I completely agree that Robinson is the greatest boxer in history. But I rank Armstrong higher P4P because of what he accomplished, all at the same time.
It was only technically at the same time. Even though he had given up the featherweight title to campaign for the lightweight and welterweight championships, he was still officially recognized as the champion at 126 when he won his titles at 147 and 135. He was, for a time, recognized by Ring Magazine as the greatest featherweight of all-time.

The bulk of Armstrong's title bouts were with the welterweight title on the line. He did, however, weigh in at or under the lightweight limit for many of his earlier welterweight title defenses.

He was only involved in three lightweight title bouts, winning the title from Lou Ambers in his fight after annexing the welterweight title from Barney Ross, successfully defending the title against Lew Feldman in a bout in which the welterweight championship was also on the line, and losing the title back to Ambers.

Overall, Armstrong was 24-4 in world title bouts: 4-1 in featherweight title bouts (including a 3-1 record in bouts for the California-Mexico version of the world title), 2-1 in world lightweight title bouts, and 19-2 in world welterweight title bouts. The 2-1 and 19-2 records each include the bout against Feldman in which both championships were being defended.
Thanks for the reply.

Ya, after reading more on him this weekend, I found out that most of his defenses were in the welterweight division, but found it very interesting that he fought a good many of them not higher than lightweight. That is amazing!
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